PJ Harvey : Classic or Dud

*considers, rolls eyes, goes back to thinking about "To Bring You My Love" instead of this nonsense*

like... not to be all proprietary but the problem here is that the discussion of her looks was what LED the discussion, even though her MUSIC is, you know, next-level

i know that you probably have zero idea of what it means like to be a woman, so here's a thought experiment: imagine having every endeavor you do viewed through a prism of whether or not you are "cute" or "fuckable" or etc. that atmosphere is what makes 'well-meaning' comments like outdoorsfish's - especially when viewed in light of reams of galleries of female musicians that put their looks first, and thinkpieces that wax poetic on artists' 'sexiness' in such a way to make their music incidental and oh, so much more - utterly toxic and worthy of being called out, good intentions or no.

i mean ffs it's not like she doesn't explicitly reference this bullshit double standard in her work or anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuJE40OBt48

"never really found her cute, before this..." is such a hideous, indefensible sentiment, even if evan is somehow tuned to the total cerebral network of outdoorfish

it's really all in the ellipses

I'm just overly optimistic about people. I was considering that it may have been poor wording. I get it.

I'm just overly optimistic about people. I was considering that it may have been poor wording. I get it.

― Evan, Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:31 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha fuck off and die

Sure!

it does make sense that the logical conclusion of pollyannaism is to render oneself utterly, wilfully blind to the structural inequalities and specific dickishness arising thereof in the world

I just needed a little more evidence. "Utterly, wilfully blind" is a bit of an exaggeration.

I know saying I'm overly optimistic sounds self congratulatory, I didn't mean it like that. Can we not ask someone to fuck off and die?

pretty please?

i didn't ask

oh it's that bit of the argument where the people objecting to misogyny etc are told off for being impolite

every. single. time

OK I'm not on the "advocating misogyny" side either. Thanks. I just don't like being told to fuck off and die. Not attempting to distract.

fuck off and die

you are worthless

matt, go enjoy a cup of chamomille tea or something.

cut it out already

yup always the people being "impolite" told to cut it out, yet i see none of evan's "cut it out"s aimed at the person being sexist

can't believe someone would object to being told to fuck off and die, every. single. time

I don't advocate sexism. I was just hoping outdoorfish didn't mean it that way.

You can "not mean" to be sexist and still be sexist. That's kind of why these inequalities are seen as structural.

not an attempt to stir, but I'm curious what people think about when and how it is/isn't appropriate to discuss pop stars physical appearance and desirability and how they shape the way you engage with them and how this relates to the gender of the pop star and the writer etc, it seems a big part of pop music/fandom, is there an ilx thread specifically about this it seems like something that must have happened over the last 14 years at some point, also it seems depressing that approx 30% of the P J Harvey thread is responding to this one post

well i wrote this primer two years ago, and am bummed that it needs revising to be more 'strident'
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/02/sexism_women_in_rock_female_musicians.php

seems to me like maura, mattress, etc are ganging up on evan for no reason. his offhand comment, which he admitted was just trying to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, doesn't warrant being told to "fuck off and die". ya'll are totally immature, and give women a terrible stigma. which i think you were trying to do the opposite of? so great job guys. maybe get back to talking about the thing this thread is actually about (MUSIC), and go let out your unhappiness on some other message board or gawker comment section.

so pleased we have juice box watching for women stigmatizing themselves

Here: thread to argue about whether sexism is inherent to the discussion of image/appearance/attractiveness of musicians

A new place to take this discussion.

i'm sorry, where did i say that i co-signed the 'fuck off and die' comment? i don't, and i think my comments on the thread bear it out.

Hope there's no hard feelings. maura isn't responsible for the fuck off and die sentiment.

I admit I blew up a little when I got lumped in as being "just as bad as sexists" but I take all that back. maura had good points.

clarification: i didnt mean to imply maura wanted evan to fuck off and die. just that she was one of the ones i saw most fueling the topic, sorry!

All the angry comments/rant that is. xpost

You can "not mean" to condone someone being told to fuck off and and still be a chimp flinging shit for social justice. That's kind of why these inequalities are seen as structural.

i am not sorry for being the only woman in a room of dudes and voicing my annoyance at hivemind tendencies, juicebox. not sorry at all.

lmaooooo bob six go sit down in the corner. 'a chimp flinging shit for social justice,' did you get that from gamergate? #notallmen

The last record of hers I absorbed was "To Bring you My Love", and haven't really had any awareness of her music for a decade or so... what might I want to hear of hers now?

Let England Shake

let england shake is really fantastic.

I love Let England Shake!

I like Stories From The City but I don't want lex to yell at me.

White Chalk doesn't get enough love. Probably my favorite of hers outside of the power-trio records (or at least neck-and-neck with Shake).

Thanks for the recs. I'll be heading in that direction shortly.

SFTC is my favorite PJ album, there's something really intense for me about the way her voice and persona scrape against the polished/more conventional tunes and arrangements. especially love 'good fortune.'

Crap, I used to own that album but haven't heard it in years. Did I forget to upload it? Anyway, I like that one, maybe not as much as To Bring You My Love, but I listened to it quite a bit when it came out. The harmonies on Beautiful Feeling are amazing.

Nevermind, I had it. pj harvey back catalog is hella on sale at itunes right now though.

Maura otm

By the way, PJ is set to start recording a new album in the new year, according to this: http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/news/40551/PJ-Harvey-plans-to-start-work-on-new-album-in-early-2015

is it just me or did Let England Shake get critically memory-holed?

Did it? I know we're a small circle.

What's refreshing and rewarding about PJ Harvey is that any one of her albums can deserve mention as part of the permanent canon.