Dudes this album is gonna have the exact same flaws as her others, let's just hope Carter V is like 2 of the good out of the four tracks that're allegedly gonna be on it. Wayne's the biggest influence on rap that you seen thus far he deserves to go out on top
― nova, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 06:53 (nine years ago) link
Having grown up with 90s mtv I'm not surprised music videos use sexual content to gain attention (still, hadn't seen the honey-booty thing before) but that doesn't make it an irrelevant issue, same goes for sexism in rap lyrics. Maybe the booty theme can be empowering/liberating but as has been noticed this J-Lo/Iggy song doesn't seem to be doing that. I don't think Nicki is either, but I respect that a lot of people disagree with me.
It shouldn't be necessary, but I'll add the disclaimer that I'm not trying to say that Lopez' self presentation is immoral or wrong, only that I don't think its intention (whatever it may be) can be isolated from the context in which it's interpreted, and I don't think it will help a feminist cause.
Sorry for not just letting this one go, I don't know why I can't get it out of my head.
― niels, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 08:48 (nine years ago) link
have you read the articles that feminists have written about "anaconda" or nah?
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 09:14 (nine years ago) link
Naaahhh, that would be too difficult. Women are just bodies for me to be looking at. They don't inhabit those bodies, or have personal feelings about them. That's too much for my little brain to get my head around. It's all for my gaze. And if it makes me uncomfortable, that makes it BAD.
― Shugazi (Branwell with an N), Tuesday, 9 September 2014 09:24 (nine years ago) link
also it shouldn't need to be pointed out but positing "are boys wanking to this" as some sort of litmus test for feminist credentials is extremely dumb on many levels
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 11:52 (nine years ago) link
I read the Molly Lambert piece you posted upthread, and I found the points on appropriation/reappropriation valid, as well as the idea of "shifting racial standards of beauty". If there are other pieces you recommend I read, I will.
I don't agree with Lambert's analysis of Nicki as subject, because I think it comes off a bit one-sided. I know this is probably not Lambert's intention, but there seems to be a false dilemma between being a sexual subject or object in a quote like this: "And because Nicki is spitting rapid-fire jokes the whole time she is onscreen, it’s impossible to feel like she’s been reduced to a mere body." Surely it's possible to both come across with valid points on female sexuality or racial standards of beauty, while also coming of as a sexual object. Feminist tropes don't automatically exclude sexists tropes (and I don't mean that sexual objectification is necessarily sexist, just that it historically has often been).
I'd like to again stress that I'm not trying to second guess or morally judge Nicki, Lopez or any other female artists, just trying to understand their songs/videos in a context where a male gaze is predominant. As stated elsewhere I can understand the rationale behind sex-positive feminism, but I feel there might be downsides to it when used to "justify" videos like the above, when it's too disconnected from the common discourse - but of course I can also appreciate the attempt to affect this discourse.
― niels, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 12:14 (nine years ago) link
back up for a second: how the fuck is jennifer lopez's butt a "2014 theme"
― katherine, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 13:15 (nine years ago) link
it was the theme of my birthday party this year
― some dude, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 13:16 (nine years ago) link
Jennifer Lopez' butt is not a 2014 theme, this feels like a forced misunderstanding, my comment was supposed to read like an ironic sigh, but should "Booty" become a hit (not totally unlikely) it would be the third hit in 2014 about butts (if we count "Anaconda" and "All About That Bass" as hits)
― niels, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 13:50 (nine years ago) link
it was also the theme of this year's senior prom at a nearby high school
― some dude, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 13:55 (nine years ago) link
just posting here because i am contractually required to with my current dn
― the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 9 September 2014 14:14 (nine years ago) link
yes and come to think of all the thinkpieces on twerking in 2013 I guess it's just an eternal theme
― niels, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 14:15 (nine years ago) link
i wrote a timeline of ass-themed hits a couple years ago: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/03/sir_mix_a_lot_baby_got_back_20th_anniversary.php
― some dude, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 14:34 (nine years ago) link
impressive! thanks for sharing
― niels, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 14:44 (nine years ago) link
Honestly the whole in-your-face sexuality element of modern feminism is problematic/doesn't make 100% sense to me given the other stuff they complain about (I mean it makes sense mind, but more on an abstract level imo) and that's part of why I can't view all these popstars latching on to that part seriously, #1 it's a little too convenient and #2 you're not original, Xtina-era Aguilera already made all your same not-very-good arguments
maybe "Anaconda" video or otherwise is a little diff. but don't honestly care
― nova, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 14:54 (nine years ago) link
those feminists with their complaining
― wolves at doors: they flan @ u face (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 9 September 2014 15:00 (nine years ago) link
yeah that was what I mean
smh at some of the reflexive response types here
― nova, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 15:03 (nine years ago) link
Here's a shovel. Keep digging
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 9 September 2014 15:09 (nine years ago) link
i feel like the critical butt theory that has flourished in the '10s prob has more to do with race than gender
― een, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 18:58 (nine years ago) link
― niels, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 08:48 (Yesterday) Permalink
Thank you. (Seriously.)
― RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 10 September 2014 00:47 (nine years ago) link
I love it when men tell women how to ~do feminism~. That helps the "feminist cause" so, soooo much.
― Shugazi (Branwell with an N), Wednesday, 10 September 2014 09:19 (nine years ago) link
http://gawker.com/even-nicki-minaj-cant-teach-vogue-models-to-twerk-1632916123
― 龜, Wednesday, 10 September 2014 19:28 (nine years ago) link
http://cheetahgirl69420.tumblr.com/post/97851461018/dirudo-broderrickstrider-make-this-govia the singles jukebox cabal
― the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Friday, 19 September 2014 06:15 (nine years ago) link
I would just like to note that J Lo's "Booty" debuts at #18 this week thanks to her requiem for a dream homage with iggy
"Anaconda" is at #4, though
― da croupier, Wednesday, 24 September 2014 19:33 (nine years ago) link
and a week later, anaconda moves up to #3, "booty" down to #45
ah well, they tried
― da croupier, Thursday, 2 October 2014 17:02 (nine years ago) link
lololol
― dyl, Thursday, 2 October 2014 20:15 (nine years ago) link
can't say i'm at all surprised that the next single (released tonight/tomorrow?) features three dudes who still manage to have a strong pull at mainstream urban radio, including perennial hookboy chris brown.
what is surprising is that neither of her previous two singles did very well at radio, even on her home format and despite promising starts. like, her features (on e.g. rae sremmurd, trey songz, august alsina, bey) can still help boost a song up urban radio playlists and yet her own songs struggle and thus have to rely on meme videos for exposure.
like, yeah, it's clear that women lately are generally struggling for mainstream urban play, and can rarely get a hit unless the songs have shamelessly zeitgeist-y production or features from men (or, more likely, both, sometimes even multiple men as in teyana taylor's current case). singles by women that deviate from that template are doomed to flop and have indeed been flopping left and right all year (hello jazmine sullivan [already migrating to urban ac, where solo women can actually get played], elle varner, tiara thomas, k michelle's new one most likely). but i thought bey and nicki were basically exceptions to that general pattern. maybe nicki isn't?
― dyl, Monday, 27 October 2014 21:15 (nine years ago) link
yeah "Anaconda" really kinda flopped at radio after all the hooplah -- never got into the top 20 of pop radio OR rap radio ("Pills N Potions" at least went top 10 on the latter, but the arrival of "Anaconda" kinda
"Fancy" was huge on urban radio, Q was mostly incidental to the success of "2 On," but yeah otherwise it's been a really male-dominated year. especially glaring given the record-breaking run of female artists on the Hot 100 lately.
― some dude, Monday, 27 October 2014 21:26 (nine years ago) link
oof didn't finish this thought before i moved on to the other one:
yeah "Anaconda" really kinda flopped at radio after all the hooplah -- never got into the top 20 of pop radio OR rap radio ("Pills N Potions" at least went top 10 on the latter, but the arrival of "Anaconda" kinda ensured its stay was short)
i wish chi-raq had been a bigger hit than it was
would have some excitement for the coming one if chris fucking brown wasn't on it - already imagining the thinkpieces about nicki's "contradictions" that will arise from her having him on a song after the refreshment/feminist reclamation of anaconda
― blood on the peaves (slothroprhymes), Monday, 27 October 2014 21:40 (nine years ago) link
"Chi-raq" went so viral with all the freestyles that i was surprised they didn't try to capitalize on that and push it to radio the way Drake did with "0 to 100"
Nicki and Chris have done a ton of songs together so i would hope the thinkpiece massive wouldn't decide just now to manufacture that angle but who am i kidding that's what pieceniks do
― some dude, Monday, 27 October 2014 21:43 (nine years ago) link
i mean seeing as how itll probably be on a gawker media property or like, salon, chances are they will not be checking past album credits/features too closely, need to work fast and get DEM CLICKZ
def wish she wouldn't invite him on tracks but i also don't think it invalidates anything about her, and i can just see the hot takes and me headdesking in the future
― blood on the peaves (slothroprhymes), Monday, 27 October 2014 21:51 (nine years ago) link
"Lookin ass" got a decent amount of play in Philly
― 龜, Monday, 27 October 2014 21:56 (nine years ago) link
― dyl, Monday, 27 October 2014 21:15 Bookmark
cant believe how naive i was to think that nicki just put out a series of wack songs ty dyl
― r|t|c, Monday, 27 October 2014 22:18 (nine years ago) link
she's going to come under more fire for working with dr. luke than chris brown
― prolego, Monday, 27 October 2014 22:28 (nine years ago) link
smh nicki has also put out wack tracks in the past that still got tons of radio play. also the paragraph you are quoting is not an attempt to explain why nicki's recent songs didn't do well w/ a ridiculous conspiracy against women, just that i was surprised that she is not immune to the hurdles faced by other women in her genre as i previously thought she was.
especially glaring given the record-breaking run of female artists on the Hot 100 lately.
i find this interesting too and billboard has made quite a big deal of it. my thoughts on it rn are a bit hand-wavy and shouldn't be taken too seriously, but i wonder if the relative scarcity of crossover into pop radio from other formats lately has allowed women comfortably within the pop format to thrive toward the top of the charts? pop and adult contemporary formats are typically the only ones where women can be found at equal or greater numbers relative to men, while other formats tend to be heavily male-dominated, so i think the natural consequence of a more insular pop format (less crossover from other formats) would be that pop women have a better shot on the charts. the other side to that situation is that the non-pop men who could previously count on having crossover hits (see lil wayne, who just announced the delay of his album one day before it was supposed to come out lol) have to rely even more on their home format for exposure, possibly to the detriment of women at those non-pop formats who now have less space for themselves on playlists. (necessary disclaimer, i don't know objectively whether crossover is rarer these days -- tho my sense is that it is -- so this is all hypothesis.)
― dyl, Monday, 27 October 2014 22:54 (nine years ago) link
omg now her album got pushed back too ;_;
― dyl, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 04:04 (nine years ago) link
http://hiphop-n-more.com/2014/10/nicki-minaj-only-feat-drake-lil-wayne-chris-brown/
― Greer, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 13:48 (nine years ago) link
sucks
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 28 October 2014 13:50 (nine years ago) link
lol the Drake verse is peak simp
― some dude, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 13:51 (nine years ago) link
trash
i still have faith the album will be great but this song instils zero confidence as the lead-in single
― prolego, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 14:17 (nine years ago) link
man in 2014 we're still calling out the contradictions between "hard" and "soft" drake oh wow
but anyway this song is not good
― blood on the peaves (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 28 October 2014 14:29 (nine years ago) link
hahaha "blow me...Lance Stephenson" is an incredibly dumb and instantly dated grocery bag line
― u2 removal machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 28 October 2014 17:12 (nine years ago) link
i do agree that we should be done with the hashtag-punchline style by now but i'm also never not in favor of lance-a-make-em-dance references
speaking of which did anyone hear lance's freestyle over "hot n---a"? not half bad imo
― blood on the peaves (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 28 October 2014 17:21 (nine years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1fHG_YCQAI795E.png
― Greer, Monday, 3 November 2014 03:42 (nine years ago) link
r.i.p. album cover design
― maura, Monday, 3 November 2014 13:43 (nine years ago) link
bad esp by donda's standards
― J0rdan S., Monday, 3 November 2014 16:58 (nine years ago) link
what was the pitch for this? "the cover is gonna be a clump of make up sitting in a make up smear"
― J0rdan S., Monday, 3 November 2014 16:59 (nine years ago) link
i mean
it's better than her other album covers so far lol
― dyl, Monday, 3 November 2014 17:09 (nine years ago) link
her album cover game is britney levels of tragic
― prolego, Monday, 3 November 2014 17:24 (nine years ago) link