Nicki Minaj - The Pink Print (2014)

anthony i'm not trying to start an argument, i'm just saying that 'anaconda' exists behind a sort of eight ball because it is automatically excluded from the kind of stations that (still, in 2014) boast about playing hits but not rap, many of which make up the radio pool from which the hot 100's data is compiled

i'm not trying to start an argument either. i'm just giving context to nicki not making number one against "shake it off's" big debut vs miley making number one against "roar"'s sixth week on the chart, since the relative placing was described as "very telling"

also my name is da croupier

mr da croupier if you're nasty

Alfred, your class sounds amazing. I'm really glad this stuff is getting taught/discussed. And I'm double glad that it's you doing it.

Maura, we've tangled on this stuff before (my husband's stupid record collection springs to mind) so I'm going to try to tread carefully to try to avoid conflict.

I get what you're saying about the whole Loophole Girl phenomenon; I've been there, too. Being the first/only girl in the room is often fraught. But there's a difference between "criticising the woman who conforms to gendered expectations in order to get/stay in that room" and "criticising the structures that put her in the room, and keep her the only girl in the room." The bad/annoying dialogue around Minaj leans too heavily on the former, IMO. This troubles me.

Nicki Minaj most analyzed not-very-good rapper in the game

"It's not that Nicki's hypersexual post modern barbie thing is necessarily bad, but its no coincidence that that's the one pertains that is still viable in hip hop, whereas women like Boss or MC Lyte or Da Brat can't exist in commercial hip hop

Like a modern example being Sweetz P who released an amazing mixtape this year but she's frankly too butch for the market now

― ra's al goole (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:02 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"

this is on-point tho

someone brought up Missy and it's worth asking if Missy could blow up in today's market? I kinda wonder....

are iggy and nicki basically the only 2 commercially big female rappers now?

I think a new artist who looked like missy could definitely blow up today based off striking, novel, eccentric but undeniably pop songs and videos today. That's different than "if supa dupa fly dropped today would it blow up" because many of those qualities it had have been normalized

yeah it's interesting because Nicki and Iggy give you the impression of "female rappers have to be like THIS to be successful now" but Missy stepped into a field where Lil Kim and Foxy Brown had kind of presented a new standard of female rapper in the same way and she thrived anyway. i think the answer is just that Missy was a singular artist and there's always room for someone unique and galvanizing to stand out.

Honestly I think having "shake it off," "anaconda," "all about the bass," "fancy" etc at the top confirms missy-style hip-hop/pop is welcome even if people find the artists more regressive or less heroic

Some dude what about Lauryn, rah digga, early eve, Mia x etc?
Are you guys arguing that it's not narrower now?

no it's def narrower now. just saying, even then Missy seemed relatively unlikely as a major star.

"Does the 10s feel as rich as the 90s" and "could a new missy even happen" are two different things

I like lex's accidental honesty in this critique of anaconda upthread:

"lots of it really, really works."

really fascinating conversations going on here

(maura, i apologize for derailing the larger points you were making, which i agree with, with my quibbling over chart minutiae)

re: "But, it's like... there's a whole massive ILX thread about Billboard and the marginalisation of African-American music. It's been noted, repeatedly, that PoC, especially Women of Colour, have been excluded and all but erased from the upper echelons of the charts. And yet Minaj seems to manage the impossible, and chart a single at Number Two - and yet there is a whole segment of ILM which *seems* deeply invested in somehow explaining that it either didn't happen, or didn't count? Why? What am I missing, or am I reading this completely wrong?"

I don't think people are saying this (I could be wrong) so much as it seems as if most people think its chart position is going to be a happy accident but short-lived. I'd love to be proven wrong on this point (and IIRC the Billboard article did mention that radio may be coming around) but it's not really out-there as a prediction.

again, I really do think the VMAs have a non-trivial amount to do with "Anaconda" reaching #2 -- being placed at the beginning of a major awards show that is apparently playing in reruns enough for my mom to call me last night and complain that she's been in some kind of "Groundhog Day" loop of the announcer presenting 5 Seconds of Summer (yes, yes, anecdotal, but still) is not meaningless. (It's also the conditions under which "Wrecking Ball" debuted, for what it's worth.)

also non-trivial: nicki minaj has a very large, very active fanbase; it's not like we're talking about an upstart nobody here.

(that said, the "skinny bitches" thing referring to anything other than skinny girls in the club is a massive, massive stretch. it's fine on its own! she who has never, not once in her life, made a grumpy comment about skinny people gets to throw stones etc.)

i'm not rooting for women of color to do well on the charts by any means necessary. i would like it to be because good songs that they are making are given the right structural support to have that opportunity. Not that they're releasing thirstbucket singles

that reads weird, but what i'm trying to say is: complaining about too many white ppl on the charts doesn't mean i'm going to root for any old bullshit just because it's by a woman of color and happens to be succeeding

nb i like this song more than most people do, but also let's not pretend that the jlo/iggy azalea record on the way isn't just going to pop out and wipe the floor with it

ignore my first post it was very badly worded

When was the last time jlo wiped the floor with anyone

I mean yeah Iggy is almost vanilla ice hot right now but I wouldn't assume the lack of a guest spot from her is all that kept "I love you papi" from hitting #1 instead of whatever low berth it got

the multiple singles with hundreds of millions of views she's had in the last 5 years?

i dunno man i'm pretty confident this one is gonna be big: http://www.audiomack.com/song/jlo/booty-remix

idk, the last Lopez single to have any real impact was On the Floor, which was 3 years ago. Since then it's been a slew of singles that go nowhere, and videos that do decently over time but don't really "take off". And it's not as if some of those singles didn't have hit potential too. Her last album also opened to terrible numbers. She's been a persistent force in pop but hasn't been on top of the game in quite some time. Even On The Floor was a one-off.

Still not over how "I Luh Ya Papi" failed.

I think you guys are underestimating Iggy

You're right, I have a feeling it won't be no mediocre showing

Like even if its "black widow" big it ain't gonna shame nicki none

0:30 - 1:30 something of a slog, but otherwise yeah

I guess we'll see

I hadn't seen the video til now...I find the song a little less boring now :D

http://thumbs.hh.ulximg.com/public/article/600_1408546430_tumblr_nal8sgouqj1shabc6o1_500_83.gif

Don't get me wrong, no one could have seen Cher's "believe" - j lo clearly won't go down without a fight. Just saying for her to truly wipe the floor with anaconda would be a thing of many thinkpieces and grand comeback chat

http://thumbs.hh.ulximg.com/public/article/600_1408546420_tumblr_nalab0joaq1ru7khoo1_500_78.gif

Weird that Anaconda is the competitor JLo has to dethrone when Shake It Off is the actual current chart topper.

well, i think the dethroning discussion is limited to songs about thrones

Or that Melvins guys side project The Thrones
Saw them open for blonde red head what a snooze

http://jeffreycaluag.tumblr.com/post/96661774711/anaconda-nicki-minaj-choreography-by

:D :D :D :D :D

biiiiitchin

yessss <3 <3

more sexploitation, great 2014 theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO4xCfGO-XU sure hope it's liberating

*Sigh*

so very disappointed that the scourge of human sexuality has suddenly overtaken popular music this year

Note: that sigh isn't aimed at any of the discussion here, but at....that, above, and whatever this showdown has to say about where we're headed (or already are) as a society, etc.

Al, I know you're being sarcastic and that you're right, but this just feels so fucking empty. Maybe I'm just getting old, I dunno.

god j lo's voice is so fuckin bad

Jello's always been known for her butt, though. Not really jumping on the bandwagon, so much as reclaiming it.

woulda queued that up a lot faster without the phrase (featuring iggy azalea)

not sure if iggy or jlo know that putting your sexuality up front also involves making sure listeners know you have a brain, too. anxious.