Let Us Anticipate Interpol - El Pintor 9/9/2014

that being said, amanda palmer puts in a remarkable amount of work into keeping eyes on her - her ted talk was almost on some l ron hubbard shit - so i don't begrudge folks hate-chronicling her pathology in action. but it's good to think about why she gets so much more hate than neil gaiman and not just to rationalize the fact.

the difference also though is that nugent and kiss were genuine superstars and all over classic rock radio and palmer just doesn't have the same cultural impact with her music. have dresden dolls or AP gotten a lot of radio play? i really don't know!

I think a more apt male counterpart to Amanda Palmer is Wayne Coyne, who does get quite a lot of shit for the barrage of ridiculous bullshit he's blessed us with over the last couple of years. It's true that he should probably get quite a bit more and Amanda Palmer should get a bit less.

that these two guys have had success writing misogynist songs in a misogynist culture for years isn't really the best thing to use as an excuse for giving them less attention than amanda palmer

xpost oooh wayne is a really good one

in all these cases it's "yeah he's a dickweed but i still love that song about being a dickweed i first heard a decade ago" vs "look i dunno what she does at that piano but she needs to SHUT UP"

massive x-posts now, but...

Yeah. Her shenanigans. And her husband. (Because that's what women are judged by; who they marry.) That is very much getting more to the nub of it, leaving Dengler and his fame or lack of it aside. Women will get reduced to their Problematisements (that's not even a word) while there's a tendency to handwave away much huger and more worrying stuff coz the guy made some great records back in the 70s.

(I dunno. I often feel like, when dealing with sexism, and also racism, a lot of it is pointing out this steady drip, drip, drip that makes up this bigger pattern of behaviour. So when you point out a drip, and people go to lengths to say "no, there's not a leak, that drip is just there because (rain, condensation, the dog drooled on that spot etc) there is no leak!" but you *know* there is a leak. Every single individual drop can be explained away in some way or another, and many people will tell you you're crazy, reading a pattern into it. It's *possible* that something like Dengler is not a drip. But the damn leak is still there.)

Now I just wanna know how many herpes jokes one has to tolerate before one gets a memo saying it's OK to make blackface videos...

xp yeah with wayne i think a lot of long-term fans have taken time to come around to the fact that he's an insufferable dickhead now

well it's not an "excuse" nor is it right, they're clearly horrible people and much worse than amanda palmer, and i don't think they get less flak than amanda palmer because of their discographies. i just think they have people talking about their music more bc their music was more central to the culture at one point, as terrible as that is. they're both pretty awful.

I mean, when I was trying to think of guys who have been problematised on anything like a level - Wayne Coyne did spring to mind after a few hours of thinking. But it's taken years for recognition of his bullshit to percolate through the "aw but he's just a hippie dippie psychedelic music making love maaaaan".

i feel i deserve great credit for thinking something was rotten in the mind of coyne from when they subbed out a variety of fans dancing onstage in animal costumes for young female fans dancing onstage in nothing. think i was at least a couple of years ahead of the critical consensus there.

both chris brown and james brown are guilty of acts of deplorable abuse. one made music that was central to the evolution of popular music for decades before people really got what he did. one did that inane song in the viral wedding vid. it's far easier to suggest the latter be blasted from the historical record than the former.

a lot of dudes weren't paying attention to the dresden dolls and it's easy for them to be like "WHY IS AMANDA PALMER A THING" rather than Wayne Coyne

(Like, I really enjoy those contexts where Paul is "Mr Helena" and no more because it's such a funny inversion of the norm as regards Amanda and Courtney etc.)

wayne coyne is a lot worse than amanda palmer for a lot of reasons i think, but he's also a lot closer to simmons and nugent in a lot of ways too. like i think amanda palmer is much more intelligent than any of those guys and when she is wrong, it's in more interesting and debatable ways. whenever i read something wayne coyne writes it sounds like an incoherent youtube comment with 3x as many downvotes as upvotes.

it's easy to find little distinctions as to why we hate this artist more than that artist but there's just the fact that female artists are more likely to be seen as expendable to a lot of dudes, because a lot of dudes don't rate female artists. so when they DO talk about female artists, it won't be with that "but i gotta give them props for their years of service to the rock industry i've idolized since childhood."

And her husband. (Because that's what women are judged by; who they marry.)

Ha ha, actually I think Gaiman gets a lot more shit for being married to Palmer than the reverse. She's seen as having married up; he now gets "I used to like him, but then he married her."

lennon undoubtedly got more shit for marrying yoko than yoko got for marrying lennon, but you'd have to bend pretty far back to pretend yoko isn't the one judged under the lens of her marriage

i had no and i mean no inkling of this film's existence until this thread. what's it even... for? is it a music video? do i have to watch it?

The film is linked way, way, back up behind the cut. I would probably recommend against watching it, unless you're a huge, massive Interpol completist. It's pretty terrible, in a "Dieter off Sprockets makes u watch Germany's most disturbing art videos" kinda way.

I've seen it once, my memory of the plot (what little there was, because most of it was kind of random, arty noize-terror video collage with nonsense Russian words in tickertape across the screen, your typical cybergoth stuff of random politics, terrorism, some kind of parliament/congress, etc. etc.) is that there is a guy (White Carlos) I dunno, I think he's supposed to be a dissident or agent or something, being held captive in a room, muttering to himself, screaming words to the effect of he's on to them, they won't get him, he knows what they're up to etc, paranoid coke-addled nonsense, while holding interesting lighting effects up to his face. Somehow communicating with him, possibly through the television, is evil-dictator-guy (Black Carlos, doyougetit symbolism?) who gives sex changes to dolls (I'm not even kidding), mugs to the camera and vogues in a pink sequinned gown, and generally performs like the worst stereotype of a ~black drag queen~. Evil Dictator Black Carlos appears to negotiate with White Carlos (it's hard to tell about what, because he's playing funny pinky and perky with the voices) possibly about evil nefarious politics and some plot. Then Evil Black Carlos produces his bargaining chip - aha! the sex changed doll, which is now a parody of pretty-blonde-hair-smeared-makeup white femininity - and laughs maniacally and hugs and kisses it, possibly more dancing. White Carlos writhes about on the floor in a suit, and I don't even remember how it ends (I think flashback home videos of Carlos with family or something?) because I was pretty much o_0 what the fuck am I looking at. (I fear I have made it sound much more interesting than it is.)

The soundtrack is shitty video-noize bricolage with interludes of dodgy electro-goth. It's not a music video, though, it is AAAARRRRT.

I had no inkling of its existence, until someone on Tumblr posted that GIF. I had to ask around to find out what the hell it was from because I really really wanted to believe that it wasn't what it looked like.

I need to go to bed now. I cannot believe i have exerted this much effort recalling and describing this thing.

yeah that does sound terrible

It is even worse than I'm making it sound.

Here, after 80 posts about Carlos, here's a rather decent interview with Kessler

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2014/08/an_interview_w_74.html

(He's a bit of a fibber, claiming that 1974 is the "late 70s" isn't he, though. But the story about he and his brother both copying their look off The Jam makes me laugh.)

Somehow communicating with him, possibly through the television, is evil-dictator-guy (Black Carlos, doyougetit symbolism?) who gives sex changes to dolls (I'm not even kidding), mugs to the camera and vogues in a pink sequinned gown

how is this different from a Tim Pope-directed Cure video?

"the most prominent American indie-rock band of the 00s (or certainly the most critically acclaimed, or "seminal" (LOL) or whatever) "

haha this is so off base and wrong. interpol are like, a footnote.

Well, first, I don't remember much blackface in Tim Pope videos (I could be wrong? It's been a very long time since I saw them, but the black/white symbolism, IIRC tended to be limited to Robert Smith's shirts.) but mostly just Tim Pope videos managed to be clever, funny, and anarchic, and this film... no seriously, go and watch it if you don't want to take my word for how bad it is. You will want those 22 minutes of your life back. Trust me.

Lol was in blackface in the Why Can't I Be You video

Branwell you're the only person who has bothered to watch that film long enough to get angry about it

OK, I had stopped paying attention to The Cure by the time of Why Can't I Be You, so clearly I missed that one. I stand corrected.

I'm 1) obviously not the only person who watched the whole video - clearly at least one other person did, in order to make the GIF! 2) If I have to explain one more time, about how I am not ~angry~, I'm just thinking through things and wondering about them and discussing and thinking through complicated topics, I am going to actually physically hit the next person that accuses me of being "angry". Go away.

chillax bro

Shugazi that last post is definitely angry, brah.

ILM isn't tumblr for social justice warriors. Why does it matter to you whether ILM is sexist/racist/etc.? There are problems in the world, yes. Huge problems. If you think you are going to work through them by derailing a thread about a second-rate band's latest album by posting a questionable .gif of an ex-band-member's crap art film and comparing it to criticism of a completely unrelated artist, you are wasting everyone's time. Unless you spend lots of time with these posters offline, I don't see how you really feel you're accomplishing anything. What are you expecting to gain from derailing this thread? Let's say you come to believe ILM as a community is sexist/racist/etc. What then? Do you stop posting here? Do you then campaign to clean up the boards? It just seems like a huge waste of time to me. Want to fix real world issues? Great. Close your ILM browser tabs and do something about it.

...

If you can't change ilx
Then
Change the world

Here's a cute interview with Kessler where he confesses to his dodgy mod past:

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2014/08/an_interview_w_74.html

Six songs into the new one and digging it. Production is thick but not shrill like OLTA, lots and lots of alluring sonic filligree.

Argh. Dilemma because I want to hear this, but I don't do leaks.

I can wait two weeks, really I can.

http://www.npr.org/2014/08/26/341629732/first-listen-interpol-el-pintor

three songs in this is already their best since antics

hahah, oh dear. Brandon told me that Kessler had learned to do a rather complicated guitar thing, of which he was "very proud". <3 I believe this must be the complicated guitar thing, on My Desire! (Which I've had trouble not calling "My Fuckwant" for months now.)

He is doing the Complicated Guitar Thing on Same Town, New Story, too! He really is like a small child with a new toy, it's so adorable.

Ah, My Blue Supreme, that'll be the one that's Fogarino's Berlin-era Bowie fan fiction.

I'm trying to work out if Everything Is Wrong = The One That Sounds Like Ride (or if there's another one that sounds even more like Ride?) Because that fuzz bass, yeah,

Breaker 1 - I don't care how much organ you pile on this and how DEEEEP the drums get, it's still your fault that there's no *real* TSM and biting their style does not endear you to me.

Tidal Wave - HI BRANDON. Ooh, I really like the bassline on this. Paul has such a better sense of rhythm, even if he tends to root note/octave basslines. The string (?) arrangements on this are fantastic; love the mellotron (?) sounding interlude. That outro! Wow. My shoes! The second from last song on every album is ALWAYS the best.

Twice As Hard - <3 Daniel's wonky piano playing. And the bass on the intro/verse! It's almost... jazzy. Dengler would never have permitted jazzy bass playing. I am liking this banks-bass thing so much. Kessler's "Cigar Tube Full Of Wasps" guitar tone!

It's really hard to avoid the feeling that he's baiting me...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwX2G-fIQAI68WQ.jpg

http://33.media.tumblr.com/5a1ba802c6b3eafef75df42bffee10fa/tumblr_nb2j9hMQJQ1rjw8sqo2_1280.jpg

p.s. remember when I said upthread that part of the reason their lyrics scan like ESL student English might be because... they were actual ESL students?

About as poppy as they're ever gonna get, I'd wager:

http://www.thelineofbestfit.com/new-music/song-of-the-day/listen-interpol-the-depths

huh. should've been the last track ime

Marfa... Pompei... Dendur... as you do...

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/ah/interpol/the-met/interpol-7.jpg

the pfork review is 10 paragraphs long. First description of a song occurs on the seventh.

I have been trying to avoid reviews because jesus christ there is just something about this band's music that inspires the WORST in purple prose. I try to avoid Pitchfork at the best of times, but I'm almost tempted to go and read it just for the sheer dread of it.

Surprise of the album 1: LYRIC SHEETS!

I guess Paul really was sick of those "time is like a broken watch" type errors.

Surprise of the album 2: someone pointed out this album had the highest BPMs since Antics, and now I'm really noticing it.

Well, that was a boring waste of time. I didn't last 4 paragraphs. It wasn't even *funny* as a savaging. At least when Alfred rips into the band he is fucking hilarious. That was just kind of boring and limp and "wow, this band don't sound as good as they did when I was 20." God that's tedious.

who knew that the greatest trick al qaeda ever pulled was convincing the world interpol had depth

You're talking to someone whose top 5 songs of all time contains Sugar Sugar by The Archies. I don't really care if a record has "depth" or not.

Surprise of the album 1: LYRIC SHEETS!

reminds me of my favorite Le Bon Bon: "hear me when you listen"

It's timeless, dammit. TIMELESS!