Betty Davis

You can laugh at me, but it seems to me that everything that is so raunchy and nasty about Led Zeppelin...this is the female funky equivalent of that. Fucking amazing.

Also thanks to Geir for posting the sleeve of Bette Davis Eyes...it's totally unrelated to this thread, of course, but it was like my favourite single in the world when I was 9 years old or whatever and seeing that sleeve again makes me feel real nice. I remember how disappointed I was when it got bumped off the #1 slot on Kasey Casem's Billboard Top 40 countdown.

Betty Davis "Anti Love Song" - where has this woman been all my life?? Really? Where the hell has her music BEEN all my life?

She out cools Curtis Mayfield. And this is not easy to do.

One random line from Bette Davis in All About Eve rocks out harder, is funkier, is more soulful, etc. than anything on these awful Betty Davis albums.

P.S. "Bette Davis Eyes" is better too.

Stand by...my bullshit metre is picking up signals...

Article about Madamoiselle Mabry in today's San Francisco chronicle, including her "only interview":
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/18/DDGS7PS9F61.DTL&type=movies

and the salient part:

As he began the bold experiments that would transform black music, Miles Davis put full trust in her ears. Then he took the helm to record her in what may be one of the greatest lost albums.

Her sensibility, she says, was "rock-oriented" and "progressive." Backed by an all-star lineup of Wayne Shorter, Billy Cox, John McLaughlin, Mike Shrieve and Tony Williams and produced by Teo Macero, she recorded a long version of Cream's "Politician" and at least one other side of songs. Was her record the missing link between "In a Silent Way" and "Bitches Brew"? We may never know. Columbia Records, at what is widely believed to have been at Miles Davis' request, shelved the tapes.

Those are tapes I would very much like to hear.

You're trying to get me to off myself aren't you?

Got the reissues in Friday's mail. Left 'em in the office, but the debut seemed pretty good (better than Chuck described above, but not by that much) on first listen.

You're trying to get me to off myself aren't you?

I read this as: You're trying to get me off to myself aren't you? Which given the shite subject of this thread would make sense.

Hmm...well don't read threads about subjects you think are shite, then.

Quite the opposite. It's called the strength of weak ties. Hop on a thread about a shite artist to find out what your ears/ass got wrong.

But in this instance, I didn't learn anything my ears/ass didn't already know. Look, I'm sorry for being so snarky but I was really taken in by the hype on Ms. Davis and got Room Temperature Mama in return. She reads much much much better than she sounds.

Okay, but it's not my fault that something is wrong with your ears.

No, it's Betty's.

it's so funny that the people that don't like betty are so fucking wrong. like, what is the rest of your life like? do you only drink herbal tea, ride a recumbent bicycle, carry a man-purse?

Yes, you're absolutely right. Only don't read the Funkadelic poll thread else you'll lose your illusion.

Cred appeal: Sex funk.
Reference: Funkadelic.
Purpose: Assert authority of opinion, re:Betty Davis.
Status: Pending.

these records are great, kinda surprised any funk fan would find something to dislike about them

Neil Schon never played better in his life!

"Any funk fan" "Neil Schon" "Any funk fan" "Neil Schon" "Any funk fan" "Neil Schon" Keep repeating "Any funk fan" "Neil Schon" Soon the surprise will dissipate "Any funk fan" "Neil Schon"

his playing on the first Betty album is great, certainly as sharp and funky as a lot of contemporary shit-hot funk lead guitarists like the Isleys or Graham Central Station. He doesn't approach Eddie Hazel-heights of weirdness but few do.

I mean what do find so awful about these albums? Be specific.

Cuz to me they combine the best of a lot of other funk bands in a really tight and unique way - Sly Stone plus Funkadelic plus a woman who can out-shriek and growl Parlet and the Brides combined

Chuck said it all above so I doubt I could add anything really compelling to his argument. In the absence of hooks, song structure, and a great (hell, even a decent) voice, these songs needed to be waaaaaaaaaay sharper and funkier than they are for them to work. Out-shrieking and growling Parlet and the Brides is hardly a recommendation because their albums are bad too (though not as bad as Davis'). And Sly Stone plus Funkadelic = Parliament and I'll take Trombipulation over any of these.

Also, I'm with Chuck re: the backstory which really is a great one. But I fear these are records people want to be better than they actually are. I want them to be too.

Not sure what I Eat Cannibals is getting at upthread but I think he's saying that I need to reference a much less "mainstream" group than Funkadelic to establish my Betty-bashing authority. I hope I got that wrong, tough, cuz it's an absurd premise.

And fwiw, I don't even know what a recumbent bicycle is.

Actually I didn't know what it was, either, but here's the wiki on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recumbent_bicycle

Actually, I wish I still had a copy of Never Buy Texas From A Cowboy.

But yeah, people are pretty clear up thread about why they have misgivings about Betty Davis despite the fact that she dresses really cool. It'd be nice if her hardcore defenders here actually addressed, say, her mediocre singing voice and lack of decent tunes instead of simply dismissing those who are more ambivalent about her as "so fucking wrong." (I don't think anybody has said that they didn't want to like her. That'd be nuts.)

I can see why folks say the first album is better, though. The second one is a bit low-key at times when that's exactly what I don't want. I haven't heard the third one yet.

Complaining about lack of tunes seems weird to me, though - The Fall don't need tunes, Can don't need tunes...

...because they have other compensating features, e.g. Mark E. Smith and funk-as-puck gooves in The Fall's case and in Can's case...well, I'm no lover (would prolly flunk your Tago Mago test Bimble) but Ege Bamyasi (I think) contains several tracks funkier than anything on the Davis discs. Plus their Pink Floyd-James Brown fusion is more interesting to ponder, talk about at parties, etc.

grooves too

yeah I don't get that criticism either - does James Brown have "tunes"? These songs are about polyrhythmic vamping (and the actual polyrhythms are just insanely tight). I'll grant that she doesn't have a traditionally "good" singing voice but I don't get that as a criticism either - she's not singing showtunes, she's presenting this aggro, sexed-up persona and her voice reflects that perfectly - its composed of all the essential vocal tics from Sly, James Brown, etc. but twisted along her own feminine lines. I didn't know vocal range was a prerequisite for women in funk - I do think of her more like a female James Brown, leading the band with her own idiosyncratic grunts and sqwuaks and sheer force of ego/personality, while the backing band cuts the shit out of what are essentially minimalist, rhythmic experiments. Personally I can't think of a better acid-funk combo than Pete Cosey's wah-wah'd chords over that stomping drum lick in "Shoop B Doop and Cop Him" (which chuck thinks is worse than its title! so whatever)

(and Kevin deferring to chuck's opinion about what is funky = weak! sorry but have you actually heard chuck ramble on about how funky various shitty 70s buttrock bands are? cuz it gets old real quick)

a female James Brown

Wow.

Her voice sounds thin, like I said. (Nobody said anything about wanting her to do show tunes.) And she doesn't vamp all that well either (well, her voice doesn't.) And believe it or not, some funk songs are catchier than other funk songs. Not really that difficult a concept to grasp, I woudln't think.

And honestly, does she even use her voice as a rhythm instrument all that much? That's what James Brown and Mark E Smith and great rappers do (and some Fall songs are catchier than other Fall songs, too, by the way, and not all Can songs are as catchy as, say, "I'm So Green.") If anything, her singing generally seems oblivious to the rhythm.

But again, I basically like her. Hell, she has an album in my heavy metal book (which nobody ever complained about, strangely.) She was obviously an original, which counts for a lot, and she clearly had a badass sense of humor. All I'm saying (and a few people are saying above) is that her songs fall short of her hype, and her hair, and Nona Hendryx.

then why do you present your complaints as being about the music, if what you're really upset about is the hype?

James Brown ref is in terms of her relation to the band and the music - as a leader that doesn't play an instrument, yet nevertheless is the music's clear center.

honestly I don't give a shit about hype in relation to anybody. I'd heard her stuff WAY before I saw anything written about her (she merits about a paragraph in Miles' autobio, for example, and her music isn't mentioned at all)

but, y'know, way to be disappointed in other people getting excited about something they haven't been able to hear before

well, I think her voice *is* thin, I think some of the songs are a bit thin lyrically outside of good phrase (or just song title). However, these records really groove. I don't know; it's possible relating to the musicians helps here? the band really sounds good behind Davis, very tight, and they *are* funky (tho not Meters funky, or James Brown funky -- but I still think most of the beats and riffs here would sound just fine on Osmium or Cosmic Slop). I mean, on a desert island, I still take my Funkadelic records first, but then Funkadelic is one of my favorite bands. Betty Davis records are just good, hard, very little bullshit funk.

and Kevin deferring to chuck's opinion about what is funky = weak!

O Prunella! Trotting out authenticity to gauge the authority of someone's response is the weakest argument of all.

Look, I wasn't deferring to Chuck's opinion and you know that. We merely share the same opinion on Betty Davis and I didn't have anything compelling to add to his argument. (For what it's worth, which is obviously very little on this thread, I cannot stand 70% of the records in Chuck's metal book so I'm definitely not in the habit of deferring to his opinion, esp. after wasting money on one too many Bang and Mountain records.)

And part of the hype that Chuck (and oh so inauthentic me) are referring to isn't just the Miles/Jimi/women in funk thang; it's simply the hype that these are great records (as opposed to Dominique's much more reasoned and hence infinitely more persuasive "good, hard, very little bullshit funk").

Finally, I have no clue what this means:

way to be disappointed in other people getting excited about something they haven't been able to hear before

Who hasn't been able to hear these records?

Who hasn't been able to hear these records?

-- Kevin John Bozelka, Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:44 AM (7 minutes ago)

They were reissued for a reason.

They were reissued for a reason.

Oh come on. I found a CD of They Say I'm Different in Chicago (where I didn't live at the time) about 5 years ago. And her stuff has been on slsk (and elsewhere, I'm sure) for eons. These are hardly lost albums.

"Not sure what I Eat Cannibals is getting at upthread but I think he's saying that I need to reference a much less "mainstream" group than Funkadelic to establish my Betty-bashing authority. I hope I got that wrong, tough, cuz it's an absurd premise."

Check out my opinions in the Funkadelic thread! That'll prove I don't have a man purse or ride a recumbent bike!

It was a cred appeal.

And what I like about the first album (I've been disappointed by her others) is the incredible depth of the rhythm section. Yeah, her voice is thin, but I like the aggressive come-ons, and I think they hold up better from the first album than on any others. C'mon, Anti-Love Song is a fucking jam.
I'll also say that this is not an album well-served by mp3 encoding and small speakers. You do lose a lot of the bass tone that way (at least the copies I found on SLSK).

OK gotcha.

i have just downloaded "they say i'm different", and now i wish i hadn't read this thread before giving it a listen. boo.

boo to who/what, exactly?

'dedicated to the press' is a killer tune

oh, just boo to seeing so many different responses to her stuff, and possibly having that color my reaction. i like to have fresh ears. though that doesn't happen all that much to me, in reality. and regardless, i just gave it a listen and i quite like it on first reaction. it's pretty ballsy (ovaries-y?). agreed on the no bullshit funk thing upthread.