In Which Doctor Casino Listens to Classic Rock Classics for the First Time

I think the fire down below is what Derek and Clive referred to as "the horn".

(spoiler alert 2: rush's "the trees" will not be featured on this thread.)

Yeah, that one's a stinker alright.

"The Trees" is some anti-union/anti-organizing bullshit.

"Spirit of Radio," though, is pretty great. Probably their best song (or at least neck-and-neck with "Tom Sawyer").

ILXor askance johnson and I were talking about what a lyrical turd "The Trees" is this past weekend. I had never listened to the lyrics closely enough to recognize it as a Randian paean to the superiority of oak trees. I just thought it was a dumb as hell song about trees, but askance set me straight. (lol)

I voted for Red Barchetta in the poll, even though that too is blatantly Randian. I think what makes The Trees so bad is that it's a dumb as hell song about trees.

I dont read the Trees as Randian. I think the lyrics are criticizing both the oaks and the maples. Red Barchetta is about a car and drinking by the fireside.

Red barchetta is more plain libertarian to me. And unlike the trees, it super slays.

So happy that my hatred for the pissed off trees is shared, I have found my people.

Peart has said that "The Trees" was just meant as a humorous song that was inspired by a cartoon about trees acting like people, not as a political statement. The break in 5 is awesome iirc but I'm surprised that this is a classic rock staple anywhere.

CI: The tune "Trees" from your Hemispheres album comes to my mind as you speak.

NP: Lyrically, that's a piece of doggerel. I certainly wouldn't be proud of the writing skill of that. What I would be proud of in that is taking a pure idea and creating an image for it. I was very proud of what I achieved in that sense. Although on the skill side of it, it's zero. I wrote "Trees" in about five minutes. It's simple rhyming and phrasing, but it illustrates a point so clearly. I wish I could do that all of the time.

CI: Did that particular song's lyrics cover a deeper social message?

NP: No, it was just a flash. I was working on an entirely different thing when I saw a cartoon picture of these trees carrying on like fools. I thought. "What if trees acted like people?" So, I saw it as a cartoon really, and wrote it that way. I think that's the image that it conjures up to a listener or a reader. A very simple statement.

I mean, I've read that too, but death of the author and all...

The Spirit of Radio: The spoilers are right - hard to get more than a quarter-second into this and not go "Oh, that!" Yes, I have heard this, many times. I have never paid any attention to it, though, so in the spirit of things I'll do that now.

The intro has this really unfortunate stop-start thing where they keep promising an awesome riff or a groove and then insist on doing a little half-stop and switching it up (this happens again periodically, especially towards the end, and I guess is them showing off their technical chops or something). Once we get to the verse, it's fine and all, but as with most of their stuff that I've heard there's a sort of thin quality - not just owing to Lee's shrill vocals, but just generally this band seems to have turned the bass/treble dial turned way over to the right. It's thus quite welcome when the bigger, more in-your-face guitars come back, there's a bedrock for the vocals to play off. Their guitar attack still has more tin and crackle in it than I might like, but maybe that's meant to make it feel "radio"-ish?

I wish I liked Rush more. I'd want to supporting eager, earnest, nerdy English-class bands bands who want to compose mini-epics about how cool it is that radio airwaves carry music on them. And yet somehow when it just gets down to the band doing their version of rocking out, I kinda just wanna hear "Dream Police" instead. Wow, I don't remember ever hearing this "words of the prophets" bit before, that's a little better though it doesn't actually benefit in any way from the Simon & Garfunkel allusion.

Well, so now I know what that's called.

Man, I already can't remember anything at all about that song except the opening guitar thing. As far as I know Rush are actually one long, hookless, picaresque performance of vaguely rock-oriented music, from which a record company periodically publishes excerpts, mislabeled as hit singles. Presumably, "The Spirit of Radio" addresses the soullessness of this system in some way. Hoping that some of the other ones they have coming up in this countdown strike me better.

i wish u liked rush more too, doc

*sigh*

I gave up trying to like Rush a long time ago. And I *like* nerdy semi-literate proggy shit. They're just so stiff.

;_;

i am, despite my username, agnostic about rush. never quite got their whole thing, but every so often i hear something that makes me want to know more. this made me laugh: one long, hookless, picaresque performance of vaguely rock-oriented music, from which a record company periodically publishes excerpts, mislabeled as hit singles.

we're going to stay proggy for another eight minutes or so. this is from the FOT (fairly obvious title) school of prog. no spoiler alert needed, i don't think.

SONG #16: YES "ROUNDABOUT"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkGzjIq4aZI

Doctor Casino so very OTM about everything that is wrong with Rush. I like that new wavey song they did with Aimee Mann, though. Geddy's voice is a whole lot more tolerable in the lower registers.

Oh, duh, I just found out why I like that Rush song. Peter Collins produced that album, and he also produced my favorite nerdy semi-literate proggy album of all time, Queensryche's Operation: Mindcrime. So thank you Peter Collins for allowing me to like one Rush song.

sandy nooooooo

Man you Rush haters. I'm so mad I could pick up a bass and play the shit out of it.

and then i'm gonna sing in a really high pitched voice about temples & shit & blow yr fking minds

I feel like I've been drawn into too many Rush conversations on ILM in the last month, so I'm leaving this one alone.

VegemiteGrrl, extra points if you make the temples pissed off at each other

looool

One of my favorite things about "Roundabout": Many, many years ago (i.e. 1985-ish) Guitar for the Practicing Musician used to have a column where they'd have well-known guitar players listen to a bunch of songs and review them. I can't remember who it was in that month's column, but when this song came up, he said something to the effect of "This isn't a song you lose your virginity to. People lose their virginity to AC/DC. Nobody remembers losing it to 'Roundabout.'"

xpost I know folks have read "The Trees" as about Quebecois separatists! Though of course, as social commentary it is about as deep as AC/DC's "Big Balls."

Who in the world like "Operation:Mindcrime" but not Rush!?

As a mild at best Yes fan, "Roundabout" is awesome.

"This isn't a song you lose your virginity to. People lose their virginity to AC/DC. Nobody remembers losing it to 'Roundabout.'"

Ha, Dan Harmon (or maybe Jeff Davis) said something like that on his podcast about "Spirit of Radio" - "No one ever got off to 'of SALESmen!'"

Rush is a lot of things but "stiff" is not one of them.

TS: And the magic music makes your morning mood vs. I'm in the mood for a melody I'm in the mood for a melody I'm in the mood

Has Geddy Lee ever done "Spirit of Radio" live and sang "And the magic music makes your morning wood" and then given the audience a big, hammy wink and grin y/n?

TOO STIFF AMIRITE

LOVE that Rush song so much. Brings back memories of music school friends who rehearsed the drum parts to Rush albums. Also Modern Drummer magazine spreads of Neil Peart's opulent drum kits.

So, returning WAY upstream to Journey's "Separate Ways," there's a dude on the intertubes looking up and doing interviews with the women who appeared in a wide variety of 80s videos, and here he interviews, Margaret Oldsted Menendez, the woman from "Separate Ways." A taste:

What was it like making the video?

The first day on the wharf of the Mississippi River by the French Quarter was freezing. There were two Winnebagos, one for the band and another for production. Lots of people were hanging in the production RV. Everyone was friendly, saying Beverly Hillbillies lines—”Y’all come back nah, ya hear?” But in New Orleans, we have southern—not exactly hillbilly—charm. Still, it was laid back and entertaining.

The director called for the musicians. Suddenly the RV was empty. The nice, relaxed gentlemen who were so entertaining [turned out to be] the band, Journey. Immediately I was nervous and also thankful for living a life of bliss—it can save a shy person. Oh, one band member, Steve Perry, pretty much stayed to himself in his (the band’s) RV. The rest of the band continued to use our RV. I have pictures from that day and an autographed album and Steve Smith’s drumsticks, which were given to Chuck.

The second day of the shoot was perfect New Orleans weather. A touch of spring for the Mardi Gras season. I remember the band appearing later than was expected and seemingly confused. They [had gone] out the night before. What they couldn’t understand was why no one ever said “Last call!” Being a New Orleans girl, I couldn’t understand what a last call even was. They explained they were out all night because normal cities close bars and let everyone know that they are closing. But this was New Orleans, and Mardi Gras.

Roundabout: Woah. Not what I was expecting so far, from the awesome stoner space painting of the Youtube thumb. Like the long slow build and... woah! Get funky!

So uh yeah. Digging it. This is busy as all hell, stuff going every which way, almost to the point of feeling sloppy despite the very precise production. And shit...now it's another part. In and around a lake, mama's come out of the sky and you stand there, doodley doodley doodley... okay. ...actually I think this song kinda breaks the 'liveblog' approach - there is just way too much going on and too many parts happening to respond to them as they come (also I'm a little drunk), not in a bad way actually and OMG the squiggles at 2:25! This is great!

hahaha the total sonic barrage in the 3:20 range - oh and now these chanting people at 3:45, and just how many percussionists are getting paid for this? I like how kinda random and unrehearsed a lot of this feels, it's a trippy journey into the land of gnomes from outer space but I could believe that a lot of this was done on the first-take, it doesn't feel like every single note has been carefully placed there in a MIDI editor, yknow?

And yet for however motley and wonky the composition is, there's - - - oooh, rockin time again !!! (6:00), someone needs to tranquilize the organist in my right ear though.... just... y'know, simmer down a little. This totally OTT busy guitar part rules and ohhh shit, now everybody's starting to lock in together (6:30), keep on rockin', guys! And keep beating the organ guy out of the picture.

But yeah like I was saying, for however motley it is, this assemblage of things, there's definitely stuff that comes back, the "in and around the lake" segment and other stuff - - acting as anchors - - - "hooks," they could be called, but don't tell Rush about them. Daah da da da.... And it's over!

Well. That was a blast. I really gotta hit the sack otherwise I would totally be dedicating the next eight minutes of my life to listening to that again. Is this what prog rock was in 1971? So much less arch and arty than what I associate with the genre - much more just like drunk stoned rock goofery given even more room to spread out. But so bright and lively too, like we've shaken off the really sweaty, cloudy drag side of psychedelia and people are actually just really happy to make this kind of weird-ass music. Starts to pull together the turn of the 70s musical map a little more for me. Is it weird that it mainly makes me want to go listen to the Attila album again? Maybe it's just the organ.

Chronology is way off but I kinda want to compare it to Elfquest, not just because of the "burgeoning science fiction/fantasy bookstore scene" visuals but really more for the sensibility. Feels like they're really painting this little music world in miniature with teeny little brushes, but with open, serene smiles. So amazing that "Owner of the Lonely Heart" is where this journey leads - I do hear it in the abrupt changes, at least.

Thumbs up!

Yes to Yes, no to Rush

;_;

Yes were absolutely a rock band - if you ever feel the need to dive deep, check out their live album, Yessongs. They crank it up.

I'm gratified by this turn of events.

The live version of Roundabout rips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmZoQFYYx8U

1. I love that song so much.
2. CAPES
3. Jon Anderson is half elf.

Awesome review!

I like how kinda random and unrehearsed a lot of this feels, it's a trippy journey into the land of gnomes from outer space but I could believe that a lot of this was done on the first-take, it doesn't feel like every single note has been carefully placed there in a MIDI editor, yknow?

Yeah, in a way, I feel like this quality actually shows what good musicians they were. They could pull off really these busy and complex things live, with a loose sense of groove.

gnomes from outer space

Actually, that's Jon Anderson.

I know so little about prog. Had always thought it kinda came later in the decade and was more "technical" or musician-ly, people fretting about time signatures and Concepts, but yeah, this is recognizably a rock band, just one with a rubber-band approach to composition and a willingness to toss in a lot of little flourishy breaks. Certain segments of this could easily be tied back down as - or have grown out of - a very conventional three-minute rock song with verses, a refrain, and two 'weird' parts showing up as the mood-setting intro and the going-zany part of the solo.

That is - I mean tons of very straightforward rock-type songs in this era have some rhythmic oddity thrown in at a kinda unexpected moment, even like, I dunno, the topsy-turvy horn break in "Spinning Wheel," or the way "Sky Pilot" or "Magic Carpet Ride" get kinda completely taken over by long stretches of groaning guitar noises and someone frenetically attacking a Hammond organ and then abruptly get back to the song just in time to fade out. Further into west coast freak-out territory, with more jazz, lies Zappa; this isn't hairy in the same way but it seems very natural as a direction rock might go, particularly after psychedelia. And hell, who didn't want to do a 'medley' or an ambitious 'suite' or two? I can just imagine "Roundabout" reorganizing itself like a Transformer and coming out as this relatively taut kinda song.

And - oops! Wiki says the single edit got to number thirteen!? This I gotta hear.

Well, that was also pretty good! I'm sure to a die-hard fan the seams are painfully obvious and it's obviously missing the kitchen-sink silliness I loved about the long one last night, but I do think it substantiates the "rock band" reading.

"roundabout" was one of the songs on your list that i was most surprised you had never heard. it was such a staple of the rock radio i grew up with, and that mood-setting intro is burned into my rock dna every bit as much as the intro to "stairway to heaven." plus, yeah, it's a really good pop song.

another yes song kinda sorta in the same vein but that didn't get as much play is "long distance runaround," which is very much worth checking out if you don't know it. (it's on the official classic rock poll ballot, but it wasn't on some dude's initial list.)

Oh man, I didn't even think about updating this thread based on the full list, that's probably sensible, though it will prolong the experiment!

"Roundabout" feels way too weird for the classic rock radio I grew up with. The same types who would deride it as music you can't have sex to would probably also call in outraged to find it taking up airspace.

Oh man, I didn't even think about updating this thread based on the full list, that's probably sensible, though it will prolong the experiment!

ha, i wasn't thinking about that at all! but if you want to...

Might be dicey I guess - some dude was a good editor but I do think some stuff slipped in that isn't really considered canonical CR and thus might kinda throw off the premise here. Maybe for the deluxe anniversary re-issue of this thread.

The same types who would deride it as music you can't have sex to would probably also call in outraged to find it taking up airspace.

ideally, though, there should be enough pot smokers calling in and requesting it to offset the outraged sex people.

some dude was a good editor but I do think some stuff slipped in that isn't really considered canonical CR and thus might kinda throw off the premise here. Maybe for the deluxe anniversary re-issue of this thread.

fair enough.

(and i wasn't trying to sneak "long distance runaround" in as an addition to this thread. just thought you might want to check it out on your own time!)

meanwhile, how about foreigner featuring thomas dolby and junior walker?

SONG #17: FOREIGNER "URGENT"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHnNIoNUZig