Pixies: Classic or Dud

Tim Hopkins thinks they're atrocious.

Tom: "...being a Pixies agnostic leaves you NOWHERE TO HIDE."

Almost done packing. Now where's my razor?

The docu stimulated - even moved - me. Sense of PERIOD, mainly. We can't ultimately separate the Pixies from their time (late 80s / early 90s) - is that right?

So - I like them in the way that I like Steady Mike's SNUB TV video: A LOT - BUT thoroughly 'conditioned' and 'historical'.

Most of what was said by rockers went way OTT. It's great to see Bowie and certain others talking (but not the utter tosser Coxon - he'd be OK maybe if he never spoke) - but no, no, they overrated.

Period, this is the key. We need to understand the Pixies in History. No?

And in Space, too. This is the thread I didn't start, but intend to.

When I was a kid, yeah they were fantastic. I'm starting to realize that kids really like music that makes them feel at odds with everything in an abstractly alienating way that is somehow a comforting cacoon. It's kind of a depressing feeling that's hard to identify as "depressing". It sounds passionate and interesting, with dissonance and screaming and yelling, lyrics that identify no real problem but are delivered with a sombre tone and offset with just the right amount of cutesy tongue-in-cheekiness. That stuff bores the piss out of me now.

well, duh.

well, duh.

(pinefox and alex in NYC in agreement shocker)

(me too shocker, come to that, tho i often agree with em separately) (also secretly)

I'll be quoting that for as long as I'm writing about pop I think. But you can't have any performance royalties.

He seemed far more charitable towards them in the C4 documentary that sparked this thread - but then I missed the first 20 minutes... perhaps he was slating them then. Strange docu - the only footage they had was from the Town & Country Club show (supporting Throwing Muses) in '88, so by the time they moved on to "Bossanova" and "Trompe", there was no illustration of the music at all. Maybe it's difficult to get the rights to the (never very interesting) videos.

"Monkey Gone To Heaven" changed my entire perception of loud-guitars- and-shouty-voices and I really did Buy The Record The Next Day. "Doolittle" remains my favourite. They may have quickly lost the intensity, but there are still traces of the ol' magic as late as '93 (4AD's last good year) with "The Last Splash", and FB's solo thing. However, the high regard in which "Teenager of the Year" is held by a certain forum contributor baffles me like few other of his opinions.

I love the Pixies dearly (and the doc made me want to dig out Come on Pilgrim again). But here's the thing: when I first heard Surfer Rosa, in a small, cold student flat in Norwich 1989, I thought it was abysmal, shouty, formless and stupid. One year later, driving around downtown Portland, Oregon it all made fantastic sense. Which makes me wonder: how does location and geographic cultural space affect the way you hear music? As an English box bedroom boy I grew up favouring the intimate confessional indie (Smiths) and domestic disco (Pet Shop Boys) one would expect, and I'm not sure the Pixies could ever make sense to me in that context. However, blasting out of a car stereo on an open Oregon highway there was suddenly *room* for the music. Maybe only a certain type of uptight, claustrophobic Englishman needs to actually go to the US to understand rock, but it puts me in mind of something Gertrude Stein said - what makes America what it is "is that there is more space where nobody is than where anybody is". And I think I heard something like that in the sound of Surfer Rosa.

The only Pixies album I ever had was Doolittle. Now I want it back again!

What is "guitar tone", and should I know about it?

And Frank Black's 1st album has just as much to offer as _Teenager of the Year_. I have no idea how his other stuff is (though the word is to beware of later albums, regardless of his semi-newfound fondness for the 2-track demo get-it-on-the-first-take ethos).

Zwan gets back together, then Frank Black hires D'arcy and Billy's head explodes

xposts: no, it's all tracks they recorded for 6 complete sessions at the BBC 1988-1991.. 3LP/2CD/digital. The previous release was just a selection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rdLiTQRP0o

I think about this interview a lot, about him painting to clear his mind after a concert, the bit where the interviewer brings up Lynda Barry (which led me down a rabbit hole) and also about him saying he doesn't care if he seems a shadow of his former self, that keeping away from a day job is his top priority. I guess like a lot of older rock musicians he doesn't have the luxury of spending several years writing and recording.

Always considered the idea that he shouldn't keep Pixies going without Kim Deal laughable

Trompe Le Monde is the best album album Charles / Black etc ever made, Kim wasn't really involved. She did other great stuff.

I read that oral history about the Pixies, which was illuminating. Yeah, Charles was pretty high strung, but Kim seemed like a tremendous pain in the ass. Iirc she was barely involved in either of the last two records. There's something to be said for bands that burn bright but fast. CCR, Smiths, Pixies, VU, even the Beatles, just this compressed productivity with a huge impact.

I kinda always thought the reason she did not have any tunes on the later records was more they were not really welcome.

Never really got it myself as I thought the real pixie dust was when both of them sang on a tune. Oh well…

I was quite shocked when I found out how she doesn't actually have have any of her own songs on Doolittle, not even as much singing as I recalled, but what is there is memorable

i would like to register my discontent with this line of Kim dismissal itt

i have nothing to add except that it’s gross and i hate it that is all

Kim of course has nothing to prove to anyone, but even "Gigantic," that was a co-write based on I think Charles's repetitive bass riff and maybe he had the chorus too, at least the repeating title. She really didn't have much creative input in the Pixies, which no doubt led to some friction, but if the book is much indication I think it was more her unpredictable behavior and unreliability that ticked him off. Like, skipping sound checks, being late to places, vanishing on tour, that sort of thing.

That said, I can't imagine the band without her, she rules and is of course a key component of what makes that band so great.

Who is dismissing her? Most people thinks she has the most vital longevity of all the band members but she was kind of sidelined from Doolittle onwards.

I finally listened to Frank Black's Oddballs, it's fun and worthwhile but not really up there with the best of his early albums.

I was quite shocked when I found out how she doesn't actually have have any of her own songs on Doolittle, not even as much singing as I recalled, but what is there is memorable

Some listings say that's a co-written song. Is there any handy listing of all the Pixies songwriting credits? Did Joey write "Levitate Me"?

"silver" and "gigantic" are credited to deal/black (though deal is responsible for most of "silver" at the very least), "levitate me" is black/lovering/jean walsh (black's then-girlfriend i think), lenchantin co-wrote a few tracks on head carrier and beneath the eyrie and santiago co-wrote a few on doggerel

"Into The White" is all hers?

black is the sole writer on that despite deal singing lead

"bam thwok" is the only pixies track that's credited only to deal afaik

I love "Bam Thwok", strange that she'd get a sole credit so late on. Seems like only months later that she left

Worth mentioning the recent unearthing of "Go Man Go" that was stapled onto the Last Splash reissue which gives a co-credit to Black Francis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcYCyzvNY1M

(sounds like a stepsibling of "Where Is My Mind?"/"Caribou"/"Velouria")

and here is the "Silver" demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH_g46UfHVQ

"bam thwok" was the first and only reunion song the original lineup made back in 2004, and i guess deal/black relations were pretty decent at the time since he let her write it

they also did Ain’t That Pretty At All for a Zevon trib


Kim had Bam Thwok sitting around intended as a Breeders song and Charles suggested recording one of hers as an olive branch for excluding her writing the previous time around

Thwok shows that a whole album of Deal songs backed by the Pixies blokes could have been great, but Bam / Ain’t is a great imaginary A-side / B-side commemoration of their whole reunion. She was right to quit rather than risk blowing their legacy; whatever the name has done since, it’s fine to think of as a different band.

FWIW, I saw them on Wednesday night. (It was already announced that Tuesday would have Bossanova and Trompe le Monde played in their entirety, so Wednesday was a "greatest hits" night, but not surprisingly, there was only one cut apiece from Bossanova and Trompe le Monde.) I love those albums, but the first EP and first two albums are still their greatest records for me, and leaning heavily on those made this a pretty amazing show. Pains me to say this, but the newer "reunion" songs really put the brakes on the show - they strung four of them in a row and it was striking how sluggish they sounded compared to everything else. (They played two more later on, but those came off much better.)

I've only seen them one other time, as an opener in an arena but even more sadly without Kim. I'm guessing that ship has pretty much sailed, barring a special occasion or a very-late-in-life reunion. Glad I caught them while they were still firing on all cylinders, and they all looked genuinely happy at the end - I think Charles said a few words to introduce each album on Wednesday, but otherwise the protocol is still clearly "just play, no chatter."

*introduce each album on Tuesday

Kim's recent Breeders and solo shows have been her career highs imho.

Charles was fairly chatty at the recent Teenager of the Year shows.

Yeah I was going to say, he was the most talkative I've ever seen him when I saw the Teenager of the Year show

He's supposedly a really nice guy in person. I know one guy who went up to him after a solo show a little over a decade ago - it was a small venue somewhere in the Midwest and everyone else who was there for the show had already left, but he saw Charles come out to do something with the equipment he left onstage. So he walked up to him and asked if he could talk to him and Charles apparently was like "sure." Totally friendly.

Forgot to mention, it was also lovely how the intro music was "Pet Sounds" (the instrumental title track to the Beach Boys album) and the first song they played was a cover of David Lynch's "Heaven" from Eraserhead. Not too surprising - I knew the Pixies loved Pet Sounds (I think at least Charles was interviewed about it for some UK publications about the album) and "Heaven" is something they covered going back to the start of their career - but still wonderful to hear. Just damn sad that we lost David Lynch AND Brian Wilson all within five months of each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atdPYVt6HhQ

I knew the Pixies loved Pet Sounds

ya, this ^^^ cover from their final peel session.

^^Which was re-recorded on the first Frank Black album.

Doing a deep dive into the Pixies, I knew Lovering was doing a magic act before the reunion, but I didn't realize he occasionally opened for Charles's solo shows (pre-reunion) doing that act. To my surprise, he was still doing it after the reunion and found some video of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lcHbH_xHcM

saw them last night in berkeley; was really on the fence about going but glad I did in the end. I only saw the pixies twice before, both with Kim Deal, but also both times post-reunion. The first show was not great, second one I don't remember anything about other than that it was too packed and we had a bad time; this was way more enjoyable though I concur, the new songs are sluggish and didn't help at times, but I guess I give them some credit for packing the setlist with 8 tracks from the most recent album that not a single person has listened to. Otherwise they played almost everything you'd want to hear at a Pixies show (except for Alec Eiffel). They also seem to get along great, which I'd been long under the impression was not the case.

they played well at red rocks last night, a very long complete set. their four piece attack is amazing, so powerful. as usual with them for me, the whole is less than the sum of its parts? i enjoy all the ingredients being put in there, great tone, great parts generally, good at doing pixies things. but the songs are a bit burdened. the bass is not elastic or melodic and it goes beyond heavy to lead. still recommended they seemed spirited and unified to me.

Honestly, this is a treat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63FopvRtWQ

(CBeebies Bedtime Stories with Black Francis)

How did that ever come about???

Cbeebies do this a lot. Josh Homme read a story a few years ago.

I saw them on Monday in Chicago -- highlights for me were "Debaser," both versions of "Wave of Mutilation," and "The Happening." About half of the new songs were fine/good, but the other half were momentum killers, and a three or four song run in the 3rd quarter of the set seemed to take the air out of the crowd. Nonetheless, I had a great time and was thrilled to see them. They don't mess about, do they? Started at 8:30 on the dot, didn't say a word -- not even a "hello" or "Thank you" -- barely stopped between songs, and finished at 10 on the dot, no encore of course.

The other highlight of the evening was Spoon who sounded fantastic and treated us to a pretty spot on Greatest Hits collection. Has Britt Daniel's voice changed at all in 25 years? What an incredible band.

I saw them in 90 and 91, then they split up, then I saw them twice more when they reformed (still with Kim) in 04 and 05. That thirteen year gap felt like ages, it is so weird to think it's now 20 years since I last saw them. I can't recall listening to anything they've done since then.

dud

1987-1991 classic (even though I thought they were Violent Femmes the first time I heard them because it sounded like Gordon Gano's voice to me)

Ha that CBeebies thing is great

xpost They owe a lot to so many, yet their own take is so distinctive you sometimes have to squint a little. Like, Violent Femmes *for sure*, but the noise and amplification throws you off a little. Husker Du, absolutely. But, for example, the Replacements. I never would have made the connection, but these podcasters did and now I hear it. Stuff like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94iUMXh26H8

I think this was the song the podcast mentioned? Either way, eerily presages Nirvana, too.

first thing i wanted to do after waking up was hear Kim's backing vocals on "Monkey Gone to Heaven". also, is she humming in the background of "Gouge Away"?