It is interesting that they played absolutely nothing from Revolver on their final US tour, even though it coincided to the month with Revolver's release
― Josefa, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 04:56 (ten years ago) link
I mean, maybe you could say that overdubs were more important on those later records. I still feel like I'm hearing the Beatles as a band on a lot of those tracks, though.
I don't really hear the Beatles as a band on MMT at all with the exception of I am the Walrus maybe. There is obviously some group participation on the White Album from a performance standpoint on about 1/3 of the songs, but the thematic/sonic cohesion is gone really. I just don't think they were occupying the same mind space in 1968 at 1966. Sometimes I think the public reaction to that album in '68 was the correct reaction. The white album's transformation into a nightmare mosaic only works from a distance.
― Darin, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 04:58 (ten years ago) link
I think it's far more than 1/3 of the songs on the White Album. Side One is pretty much the Beatles on everything except "Wild Honey Pie." Paul plays drums on "Back in the USSR" and there's no drums on "Dear Prudence."
I think I know what you mean by Revolver still having sonic cohesion, but I actually don't think it's present anymore on Paul's tracks.
As for MMT, why is "I Am the Walrus" more an example of the Beatles playing as a band than the title track or "Your Mother Should Know?" Paul on bass on Ringo on drums on "Blue Jay Way."
― timellison, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 05:17 (ten years ago) link
Maybe there's better songs overall on other albums but the guitars sound so good on Revolver. Also yeah Ringo destroys on She Said She Said.
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 05:18 (ten years ago) link
Some of it might be a distinction between guitar and keyboard-based tracks. If you can accept keyboard-based tracks as Beatles-as-rock-band sound, then "Fixing a Hole" fits right in.
― timellison, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 05:21 (ten years ago) link
Actually, sorry, Paul on drums on "Dear Prudence."
― timellison, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 05:24 (ten years ago) link
Paul's doing his own thing with his character driven dioramas (Yellow Submarine, Eleanor Rigby), but he's exploring similar themes of life and death on Revolver (Rigby, GTGYIML, HTAE, For No One), plus melodic/droney stuff (Paperback Rider).
― Darin, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 05:52 (ten years ago) link
There are drums on "Dear Prudence" and they are AMAZING. Paul played drums on that one.
― ▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 13:55 (ten years ago) link
Oops, already noted.
― Josefa, Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:56 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
They did play "Paperback Writer" (I know, not on Revolver, but recorded at the same sessions) on their 1966 tours.
But they knew they'd be playing to audiences that couldn't hear them, and they still couldn't hear themselves; so why waste time whipping the new shit into shape for people who just came to scream at them?
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 14:02 (ten years ago) link
Paperback Writer is another kick-ass Ringo joint
― Khamma chameleon (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 17:06 (ten years ago) link
it's not a ringo tune!
― marcos, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 17:09 (ten years ago) link
oh you're talking about the drum playing, nevermind
― marcos, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 17:10 (ten years ago) link
yes he kicks ass on it!
when it transitions from the opening chorus to the first verse that is a serious jump up and down like a maniac moment imo
― Khamma chameleon (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 17:23 (ten years ago) link
"Sometimes I think the public reaction to that album in '68 was the correct reaction"
It wasn't seen as good then? Interested cuz I'm not real familiar with how each individual Beatles album was seen in its time, or which ones were more popular than the others, other than Pepper taking on iconic status
― nova, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 21:39 (ten years ago) link
Rolling Stone loved it (I think they called it the Beatles' best), and it sold a shit-ton.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 21:51 (ten years ago) link
only tangentially related but ever since I read someone argue that Lennon gave up on writing thorough songs after Revolver and critiqued how he either went for soft repetition or chopped-up loud weirdness on The White Album it's kinda messed with my perception of some of his songs, not to say I don't dig a bunch of 'em there
― nova, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 21:57 (ten years ago) link
Not necessarily identical to "the public reaction," but I found the Wikipedia section on its critical reception to be informative:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_(album)#Critical_reception
― intheblanks, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 22:02 (ten years ago) link
I remember digging up some critical overview of the Beatles at my high school back in the 80s and being struck by how uniformly negative most of their post-Rubber Soul record reviews were. it was really striking, the mainstream press found all the psychedelic experiments and confessional songwriting etc really indulgent and tiresome. how they longed for the good old days of those classic verse-chorus-verse pop songs...
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 22:05 (ten years ago) link
Lennon obv got much simpler, "stark" or "primal" or "direct" when it was to the good and "lazy" or "boring" or "lame" when it wasn't. I certainly have less interest in hearing his stuff of the mid 70s and later compared to Paul and George's...
― Khamma chameleon (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 22:11 (ten years ago) link
one thing that bugs me about Lennon's solo work is that sometime around 1970 or so his stuff becomes much more rhythmically simple and straightforward. His Beatles stuff has a lot of weird dropped beats and mid-song time signature shifts, but this seems to be a stylistic tic that he just completely abandoned at some point. it's strange, as it's a very distinctive feature of some of his best material.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 22:15 (ten years ago) link
yeah
also only tangentially related I remember picking up "The Lives of John Lennon" on a whim and dude arguing that McCartney held the band together 1967 on while he was off in a drug-induced haze, was the only true genius of the group, etc. etc. I thought OK, interesting viewpoint if possibly a little overstated, but then I skimmed the rest of it and apparently according to this guy Lennon was the 20th century's greatest monster
then I looked it up and saw all the commentary saying it was essentially a hitjob yellow journalism piece on him with sketchy sources lol
― nova, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 22:22 (ten years ago) link
haha yeah that book is kinda legendary
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 22:29 (ten years ago) link
There is some weird stuff in there, a la "#9 Dream", but overall I'd agree -- and not just rhthmically, but harmonically, production-wise, he really seemed to streamline his writing after the Beatles. There is nothing like "Because" or certainly "I Am the Walrus" anywhere in his solo discography. I listened to the RS 1971 interview today on youtube, and he mentions how he'd taken LSD and done a lot of experimenting in music, so he might have personally chalked up all that weirdness to the times. By contrast, though I usually prefer McCartney's Beatles output to his solo material, I'd be hard pressed to identify a purely musical aspect of his solo material that was objectively different after the breakup.
imo had Lennon lived, I'd be surprised if he wouldn't have ended up in the Travelling Wilburys. He was at least as "rootsy" in his appreciation of old rock and roll as any of the other Beatles.
― Dominique, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 22:52 (ten years ago) link
v hobbity cover
― the only thing worse than being tweeted about (darraghmac), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 23:17 (ten years ago) link
yeah there are flashes of it - "All My Life" on Pussycats, "#9 Dream" - but not a lot
xxp
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 23:30 (ten years ago) link
here's nik cohn's original NYT review of the white album, it's kind of astonishingly negative:
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/nikcohn1968.pdf
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 22 May 2014 01:38 (ten years ago) link
Re the simplification of John's writing: I'd agree as well. Over the weekend I was reading the website of the tuba player Howard Johnson because of the revival of one of The Band threads and Hojo was saying that John never really learned piano voicings, he would always just play the simplest shape and then move it around. http://www.hojotuba.com/merch/
― Pentatonic's Rendezvous Band (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 22 May 2014 01:48 (ten years ago) link
that nik cohn review and the howard johnson interview are two A-plus reads. thanks guys!
cohn's objective description of the white album is pretty much dead-on, though i disagree completely with his conclusions. it's a perfectly understandable first impression. his rave for beggars banquet in the same review is great, despite his complete miss of the power of "sympathy for the devil." but i'm trying to work out what songs he's talking about elsewhere: he quotes the lyrics to "dear doctor" in his description of a song called "squalor"; was "squalor" a working title or something? and if so, what's the country song with mouth harps and mandolins that he refers to as "doctor doctor"? is that (the otherwise unmentioned) "factory girl" maybe? i'm confused.
― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 22 May 2014 03:09 (ten years ago) link
Glad you liked the Hojo interview, fcc, it was one of the more inspiring things I've read recently, maybe ever.
― Pentatonic's Rendezvous Band (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 22 May 2014 03:30 (ten years ago) link
the duds are massive and sprinkled in evenly: "Love You To," "Yellow Submarine," and "Got to Get You Into My Life." not so hot on "doctor robert" either. not a dud though.
Revolver is the go-to safe-cool pick for "best" Beatles LP because it's sort of weird, sgt pepper is too obvious, and white album is too weird. the white album is much more cohesive than revolver. sgt pepper too
― i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 22 May 2014 07:29 (ten years ago) link
here's nik cohn's original NYT review of the white album, it's kind of astonishingly negative
Really negative, until the bit where his list of the few positives begins with Bungalow Bill! Great read though.
― Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 22 May 2014 08:51 (ten years ago) link
"Nobody Told Me" is some mid-era Lennon with a weird time signature
― ▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:26 (ten years ago) link
mid-era?
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:28 (ten years ago) link
Eh, late-era.
― ▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:29 (ten years ago) link
cohn wrote a lukewarm review of abbey road for the times as well
― balls, Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:32 (ten years ago) link
Actually, reading that review (which I agree is interesting in a lot of points, though basically completely disagree on the quality of lots of tracks the writer dislikes), makes me wonder what other bands have issued records (or even just songs) that *knowingly* parodied the band itself. I can think of Police songs that reference other Police songs, for example, but none that parody the Police, per se. Or, what would Radiohead making a Radiohead pastiche -- not unintentionally mind you -- sound like? Further still, do you think U2 even realize their sound could be parodied?
(in truth, I'd bet they do)
― Dominique, Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:53 (ten years ago) link
smashing pumpkins, nirvana
― i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:59 (ten years ago) link
really, which songs?
― Dominique, Thursday, 22 May 2014 17:12 (ten years ago) link
― ▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:26 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It's in straight 4/4 with the occasional 2/4 bar in the pre-chorus.
― Diddley Hollyberry (Phil D.), Thursday, 22 May 2014 17:12 (ten years ago) link
"i hate myself and want to die" & "tales of a scorched earth"
― i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 22 May 2014 17:22 (ten years ago) link
cohn:
"What's gone wrong basically, the trouble is, simply that rather more than half the songs are profound mediocrities."
it gives me confidence that some people who construct sentences as terribly as i do manage to wind up reviewing beatles albums for the nyt
― go to evangelical agonizing eternal hell (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 May 2014 17:23 (ten years ago) link
cohn's review of abbey road is up too -- he loved the medley but hated everything else:
http://www.nytimes.com/library/music/100569lennon-beat.html
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 22 May 2014 17:42 (ten years ago) link
small mistake on the Oh! Darling analysis there
― nova, Thursday, 22 May 2014 17:56 (ten years ago) link
two songs by George Harrison, mediocrity incarnate;
Yeah, what ever became of THOSE two pieces of crap?
― Diddley Hollyberry (Phil D.), Thursday, 22 May 2014 18:16 (ten years ago) link
Sinatra used to introduce "Something" as "the most mediocre love song of the last 50 years."
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 22 May 2014 18:17 (ten years ago) link
lol
― i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 22 May 2014 18:18 (ten years ago) link
not gonna lie, sometimes I start Abbey Road on "Maxwell's Silver Hammer." might make me a bad person. I like "Something" well enough though, but def. prefer "Here Comes the Sun"
― nova, Thursday, 22 May 2014 20:38 (ten years ago) link
i love abbey road but it was the first and only beatles stuff i heard for a long time (i had a weird musical upbringing) and it kind of gave me the wrong idea about them for several years
― go to evangelical agonizing eternal hell (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 May 2014 20:42 (ten years ago) link