"OK Computer": Classic Or Dud?

Dud.

Just completely humorless. I can't stomach it.

was gonna say about U2, I really fucking hate them

What did Radiohead create? They projected this haunted, exquisitely soulful (but somehow debased and defeated) humanity onto/into the mechanical apparatus of their superslick arena rock. At the same time, they dragged in a universe of textures and a way of experiencing sonic texture as an aspect of pop music that clearly owed something to electronic music (and also to pop-prog in the vein of later Pink Floyd). Separated from one another, these things might not be remarkable, but they fused the two elements – delicate injury and music as a primarily textural experience – in a may that made them seem like one thing. Humanity is a ghost in Radiohead’s music, but it’s an incredibly rich, lush and tangible non-presence. Their electronic interpolations aren’t there for contrast, but to highlight and illustrate the terribly fragility of the human. This theme, the essential failed-ness of the human, an almost sickeningly sentimental embrace of the remains of the human, like a baby cradled in the wake of a terrible blow, is present at every level in their music. The point to my mind isn’t that they went all electronic-y or proggy or something, but that they made these things part of how their music addressed and embodied the human experience. And it’s not like they invented the endearing qualities of being a tiny flesh-blob smushed inside the apparatus-world, but they gave those qualities a LOUD and unique pop voice, a voice that’s so strong and so intrinsically right that it now seems inseperable from the experience it conveys, perhaps even from the experience of (post) modern life.

There are many, many great passages in Kill Your Friends by John Niven (American Psycho transposed to London music A&R in 1997) where the narrator goes on about having heard Radiohead's new record and how it's "unlistenable, unmarketable prog shit".

If you look at where rock music went after Radiohead saturated the American music scene, you start seeing previously-quirky bands popping up as mass-market hits (The Flaming Lips, Modest Mouse) along with a bunch of newer quirkier-acts getting commercial props (Death Cab For Cutie, Fall Out Boy, Panic! At The Disco). I think you can directly or indirectly tie all of these back to Radiohead bending what people would accept on their radios from a rock band (despite their radio play falling off dramatically after OK Computer).

-- HI DERE

Jesus fucking do you realize christ, I mean.

None of the quirkiness of Death Cab or Flips or whoever is really much AT ALL compared to such big 60s radio hits as Good Vibrations or, god, any Beatles song post-1965. Radiohead might have made it OK to play Flips on the radio or something but that ought not to have a been a big deal.

Yeah, because one thing that current rock stations are playing to death right now is "Good Vibrations".

Also lots of hip hop and chart music still being fucking mad radical and bonkers and only purist whiteboy indieguitarfuXXors being nasty little conservative meat&potato little shits by comparison.

contenderizers long post is making me totally change my mind, stop that.

I'm not talking about right now, Dan, 1997 isn't right now either, but... Karma Police vs Missy Elliott.

me too, i'm selling my radiohead cds now xpost

Contenderizer's post is nice and good and all but at the end of the day I'm not going to feel Radiohead the way he does. Cop Shoot Cop vs The Tourist; I know what blew my mind more in 97.

I was just joking'!

I'm not talking about right now, Dan, 1997 isn't right now either, but... Karma Police vs Missy Elliott.

... I kind of don't see how that changes my point at all (namely who cares if "Good Vibrations" was more radical for its day when its day was 30 years prior to what was happening when OK Computer came out and therefore under even more of the hindsight pooh-poohing than OC is now).

by which I mean, great post, and I think I really understand why you like this band, I only wish I could articulate why I don't so well

fwiw "Cop Shoot Cop" IS way better than "The Tourist"

You need to work on yr timign then, IKR.

Contenderizer's post is nice and good and all but at the end of the day I'm not going to feel Radiohead the way he does.

-- Scik Mouthy

Loved Cop Shoot Cop back in the day, but they seem MUCH sillier than I remember when I try to listen to 'em now. I say this 'cuz I picked up a used copy of Consumer Revolt a few weeks ago. Foetus' Nail holds up better 'cuz he's more inclined to admit/embrace the silliness.

timign?

xp, sorry what?

Foetus is hilarious

er pretty sure we're talking Spiritualized here (tho Cop Shoot Cop and Foetus are also both awesome, probably more awesome than any other bands mentioned on this thread including Radiohead)

Okay, that makes MUCH more sense. Was getting a little dizzy there.

Aye, I've never heard Cop Shoot Cop the band; should I?

I advocate hearing them but I will not guarantee at all that you'll like them.

Push It Out >>>>> everything on OK Computer.

Now that I've got my mind right, Spiritualized is a really good reference point, and a decent way to challenge the idea of Radiohead's single-handed game-changingness.

Spiritualized is the one I always use (and generally get shot down for).

The big three progressive Britpop/rock albums of 97 in the UK were Radiohead, Spiritualized and The Verve; while I now pretty much dislike The Verve's effort, at the time I ranked the Sp, Verve, RH. Now Sp, RH, Verve. I think BSS does something RH have never managed.

mark s is a monumental douchebag and this thread is as good an exhibition as any.

Reckoner would be beautiful but there's no intimacy to it, it's fake. I can't buy into it. I don't think that Yorke means anything, I don't think the band care. It's like a beautifully designed car that no can ever drive.

It's like they got all these elements together that I love individually and would like to see sitting next to each other, like Louis' idea of how music ought to take in EVERYTHING, express and progress and performance and production and all at once, and Radiohead DID IT but when they hold it out in front oif me I just go "oh" instead of "wow" because it's like a big impressive equation that I can respect because I could never manage to make it balance myself but that i also, simply, really, deep down, just do. not. give. a. fuck. about.

I remember my mate Adam... bumped into him in WHSmiths just before Kid A came out, there was a review in Uncut or something, and he was all like "wow, look at this" and read out the description and said "doesn't that sound like the best record ever?" and yeah it kind of did when you broke it down but then you actually listen to it (I actually listen to it) and, no, I still prefer Drawn From Memory by Embrace, which is a vastly inferior and massively less popular record in many ways, but which moves me and excites me precisely because it's broken and short-sighted and wrong-headed. You like people for their talents but love them for their failings, maybe.

it's fake. I can't buy into it. I don't think that Yorke means anything, I don't think the band care. It's like a beautifully designed car that no can ever drive.

-- Scik

You like people for their talents but love them for their failings, maybe.

-- Scik

Radiohead are about being in love with failure, but they're too perfect to love.

Are we talking about a band or a mid-life crisis?

Aye. They're not just singing about Fake Plastic Trees, they ARE fake plastic trees.

Yorke's vocals on Videotape are fucking horrible, the way they're mixed. He sounds like clogged sinuses feel. He makes my sinuses ache. Uergh.

Not having emotional resonance to the music is perfectly valid, but I’m not so sure how valid it is to try to make liking their music seem disingenuous.

Thus the general reception (a literate proclamation of "OMG!" by people who, often, don't listen to that much music besides)

What I find particularly condescending and arbitrary, though, is how a lot of music critics tend to base their invective toward RH exclusively on some Extramusical Straw Man Radiohead --- emphasizing attributed "intentions" or "true colors" (not only RH's, but also their fans'). This is not only just a really severe case of missing the point, it’s offensive in its assumption that the necessary premise to liking their music is musical ignorance.

So you've got a Big Cock Record Collection, good for you. Not everyone listens to music like it’s a dick-wagging contest. Just sayin'.

What I find particularly condescending and arbitrary, though, is how a lot of music critics tend to base their invective toward RH exclusively on some Extramusical Straw Man Radiohead... So you've got a Big Cock Record Collection, good for you. Not everyone listens to music like it’s a dick-wagging contest.

-- Turangalila

Strawman Radiohead vs. strawman critics FITE!

Radiohead aren't damaged, schiz or playful enough (on the whole) to fit into my roster of very favourite bands. I'm glad Foetus got a mention because his later stuff (concurrent with RH) goes to places Radiohead haven't touched, for all their super songcraft. In these respects I'm with Nick. They still give me a buzz of excitement, though. Hail To The Thief, I maintain, is the record where they come closest to a damaged, schiz, playful reinvention of themselves as popular rock harlequins.

radiohead is just about as good as it's possible for a very popular major label type rock band to be in the current climate. (i know they are not on a major anymore but they are a major label band always have been)

overall they are good. they are sort of underrated and overrated in a way.

What's weird is that I don't see any connection between how good I think an album or band is and whether or not the album/band is classic. Fish vs. fowl.

I do, because I rule the universe and you must all agree with me.

Radiohead aren't damaged, schiz or playful enough (on the whole) to fit into my roster of very favourite bands. I'm glad Foetus got a mention because his later stuff (concurrent with RH) goes to places Radiohead haven't touched, for all their super songcraft. In these respects I'm with Nick. They still give me a buzz of excitement, though. Hail To The Thief, I maintain, is the record where they come closest to a damaged, schiz, playful reinvention of themselves as popular rock harlequins.

-- Just got offed,

what the fuck?? this reads like 'theyre just too pop for me' but with a lot more words. like theyre 'damaged/schiz/playful' but with an emphasis on 'super songcraft' & somehow thats inferior in your eyes, which seems retarded to me

I think JGO is just saying that Radiohead aren't to his/her tastes. And that's always okay, whatever the justification might be.

Yeah, I don't really see an issue with that. LEAVE LOUIS JAGGER ALONE! :)

his/her

Yeah, not like I've been saying how much I like them. Also, deeznuts, please learn to parse.

'their songcraft is just too good for my tastes'

XP

Actually, contenderizer, you have a point in that they're not EXACTLY to my tastes, but then very very few bands are, whatever those tastes might be, which is a whole lotta murk in itself. For the most part, they ARE to a broader "taste" defined by "do I like and listen to this music". Argh, STFU me already.