Why Vinyl Can't Survive

vol sounds the same to me.

just spent an entertaining two minutes clicking rapidly between them creating my own scratch remix.

with headphones or at home I can't tell the difference between any mp3's above 192 kbps, but i can tell that they're mp3's. the biggest difference is on either a high-end hi-fi or in a nightclub (where this is the most obvious thing ever, to me)

yeah listening to two mp3 files on a computer with headphones really doesn't mean anything as compared to listening on a good stereo with good record player

The trick is to not use those shitty little earpieces that come with your iPod. Get some Grado headphones. SR-60 is fine. Grado + iPod = good times.

please, sir, ipod ear buds aren't even fit to shove up a dead racoon's ass.

grados are nice though i have a pair

i just took the test here: http://mp3ornot.com/

I picked the right one - 128 sounded flatter but it took some concentrated listening. bass response tends to be less defined at lower bitrates so the orchestra hit at the end is a good thing to focus on.

however that wasn't the best clip to demonstrate the difference - it's a simple passage (most of it is one long chord) recorded crisply & clearly so it didn't degrade much. a randomly rotating selection of 50 clips of various music styles would point up the difference between 128 + 320 pretty quickly, especially if you get into rock / punk / indie that tends to have lower engineering quality and denser mixes.

I don't have a lot of uncompressed files on my computer right now, so this isn't the best example either, but I can definitely hear a difference at certain points in this:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/6138g5

128 has a more watery, realaudio type sound.

Yeah I picked the 320 file too. My ears are really sensitive to compression and digital distortion for some reason. When I'm mixing a record, I generally catch things the engineers miss.

A few nights ago, standing about ten feet from the stage while Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds performed, I just reveled in the glory of massive sound and subwoofers in a ballroom with pro engineers at the board and pro players making the music.

You can argue all you want about vinyl vs mp3 vs headphones vs pro speakers. But the best sound will be a great band in a great room at full blast.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121483273

There they go blaming hipsters again.

This seems like as good a place as any.

http://sickmouthy.com/2013/02/06/why-the-vinyl-revival-can-sod-off-as-far-as-im-concerned/

The pop album edition last night, with Hepworth and Dent and Boy George, was SO much better. No bullshit mythology (despite better stories and myths and more magic), and zero bullshit format talk.

I dont really understand format wars, but you're the one bringing it up in an article, are you sure you're so above format fighting?

I don't know who any of those people you mention are but from where I'm sitting vinyl never went away, most 12"s dont come out on cd, vinyl only is still the norm for many good labels, and the better DJs all have to play vinyl if they don't want to be restricted in choice - not to mention all the masses of $1 hidden gems from the past that will never get reissued. It might be a revival to you because you only just noticed, but for many scenes, people, djs - it never went away.

I don't mind whatever people play, you're the one criticizing a format here...why?

I'm bringing it up in an article because there's a whole season of programs dedicated to it on the BBC at the moment; 6music has a dedicated vinyl show, fashion shops have displays of vinyl records, there have been innumerable articles about how vinyl is making a resurgence over the last few years, etcetera etcetera. Have you really not noticed this? I'm not saying vinyl ever went away, nor criticising it as a DJ tool - that's a very different thing from Beatles reissues and Tame Impala and Toro Y Moi and the D'Angelo reissue being in sale at the front of Urban Outfitters. I'm also not criticising a format; in fact I'm at great pains to say I'm criticising the mythology that surrounds it in a rock sense, which is a very specific thing.

Most 12"s will come out as a download, apart from select vinyl-only releases, and even then there will probable be more ripped files out there than the record.

But you are criticizing it as a format choice, implicitly. Why do you have a problem with a record sleeve in a window? I've never seen any of those programs but sure i'm aware of articles like yours talking about its resurgence, and the fashion of putting on display - but if you don't want bullshit format talk - then why introduce it in the first place

Most 12"s will come out as a download, apart from select vinyl-only releases, and even then there will probable be more ripped files out there than the record.

― Chewshabadoo,

I'm still finding proportion of vinyl that has a download to be pretty low. This is probably tangentially one of the bigger problems with vinyl currently, artificial scarcity with releases coming out in too small runs, selling out too quick and then vanishing or seeing the discogs price go through the roof (even worse for records from 10-15 years ago that used to be $1).

I don't bother with rips or illegal downloads but those are diminishing too as people seem less into ripping stuff that is now scarce

ie - biggest problem with vinyl is discogs speculators

but labels/artists are partly to blame for that with small print runs (and who can blame them - guaranteed cost-effective)

Nick, it seems unusually touchy of you to feel like a bunch of people (even rather a lot of people) who fetishise vinyl somehow invalidate your relationship with the music you listen to and have listened to.

It's certainly true that there's an element of rubbing-it-in here on the part of old gits (like me) who always preferred vinyl and who were pretty much given the choice of moving to a new format we didn't much like or stopping buying music altogether. We win (kinda sorta, I mean we don't at all, but you know what I mean). And it's also true that the alliance between th eold gits and the retrohipsters is a bit unholy. But you shouldn't take it so personal, dude.

I'm mostly wound up as a rhetorical device, in all honesty (as usual); it's the rockism that bothers me far more than the format.

Well, yes. As an Old Git I was more than happy to switch to CD - easier to handle, collate and shelve, much more convenient in every way - and I don't miss vinyl at all. I only ever get something on vinyl if it's completely unavailable in any other format but I don't "not" buy something because it's only on vinyl. I don't draw a line in the sand but I'm fed up with people my age and older droning on about how much better their lives were than ours because they listened to a different sound reproduction format. I also feel it's had a kickback effect on British rock music which now does little except look back, or peer back in a "we can never be as great as..." fashion. It's like saying that the next generation are, somehow, failures.

What rock music?

I just liked vinyl more and switched from CD to it in '94 or so, btw

Two points re albums over CDs, hope you agree,,

1) An album is two discrete units of performance, side 1 and side 2. This promotes two 'start' tracks, two 'endings', and a performance between.

2) CD albums can be up to 78 mins or so, tempting the artist to use all that time, often not a good thing. (At least with double albums you could boff the artist with the point that the product will cost more and earn less. plus, four discrete performances, see 1.)

In most other respects, CD albums win.

I almost never skip tracks, LP or CD.

Totally agree with both of those points, of course.

Each to their own of course but it's merely CDs that I hate. I use MP3s/WAVs and vinyl in equal amounts, most of my DJ friends are switching back from digital DJing to using vinyl just because the skill set needed keeps the process more tactile and interesting and, finally, it's not a 'revival' for those of us who never stopped buying it. I'm not saying some people don't have rose tinted glasses on when it comes to vinyl but it feels like a strawman when I look at my peers. Newer labels who do a lot of vinyl tend to have a sonically progressive agenda and not just in electronic music but in more traditional forms like Southern Lord.

I'd be the first to admit that there are a lot of bellends who collect vinyl. Ebay profiteers are scumbags but I have more (irrational) dislike for 7" collectors (especially of psych, northern soul, reggae, dub, funk etc) who always, in my experience, value price and rarity over quality. But I collect records, I am not a record collector if you take the distinction. I'm more concerned with the quality of the pressing and the condition of the vinyl than I am with whether it's original or not.

But seriously, always vinyl over CD. Always.

Hahah, those 7" "collectors" who clog up MVE with their printed-out lists of "rare" funk 45s.

Still, I see the Soul & Dance MVE in Notting Hill is closing down, or moving upstairs in the main branch, so maybe they'll move somewhere else. Helmand Province, for instance.

Really? So, the 'collectible' 1st floor is shifting? or incorporating?

Stick them all on an island in the Pacific with no means of escape and Mark Lamarr as their tribal leader.

CDs have become litter to me, pretty much. Their worth has become inverted and I never buy them any more if I can help it, because all I'm going to do is rip them and then they'll sit on my shelves gathering dust and taking up space. Since receiving a small portable turntable for my birthday I've acquired a few pieces of vinyl and I rather like it. The change in medium makes a change in the listening experience for me. If I'm going to own music, and while it's great to have an infinite amount of songs at my disposal on my computer, I feel like having a physical artefact to hand can affect a stronger psychological tie to the music for me. Agreed that all vinyl should come with a download - if that were the case I'd buy a shitload more music than I do now.

Every record I buy that doesn't come with a download, I just download illegally. I'm kinda comfortable with the ethics of this system.

No-one ever cared abt CDs, is the thing.

That's not true and you know it's not.

any technophiles know if higher resolution 3d printers will actually mean we'll be able to make records at home?

"Make my own records at home, I can't go out in the rain," as Sting used to sing.

apparently the resolution is currently not fine enough

By the time I started buying LPs, the actual quality of the vinyl was pretty shoddy, and even brand new albs would often skip or jump, even when treated with great care (this seemed to be especially the case with back catalogue reissues). So I've always preferred CDs and will be sad to see them go.

I liked CDs when I had a use for them, but I don't any more.

This is several xposts, but I'm gonna post it anyway:

I've no huge emotional stakes in vinyl versus digital debate, but I've always found the current vinyl revival a bit curious... I do own a vinyl player and have a bunch of records on vinyl, but that's only because there's so much stuff that was only released in vinyl and never reissued on CD. However, what I don't get is people buying vinyl when the same material can be bought on CD (or as lossless files, if that's your thing), usually at a much cheaper price.

Basically, for me the biggest reason I buy records on CD is that they're easier and more comfortable to use. I love to lie on the sofa, read a comic book, and listen to an album all the way through. But with vinyl you can't do that, you have to get up every 25 minutes to switch sides, and with longer albums you have to do that more than once. That is quite irritating, and with albums that are supposed to work as a whole it can totally ruin the mood.

Another thing is that vinyl deteriorates much more easily than CD. Unless you treat your albums with kid gloves, you are are gonna get those crackles and pops, which can be pretty disruptive, especially on albums which have "quiet" sound. Other sorts of deterioration tend to happen to vinyl with age too, such as disruption at high sounds, which I personally hate a lot, as it sounds awful to my ears. None of this will happen to CDs.

I don't think anyone disagrees that vinyls are much more of hassle to play and handle than the alternatives. So what are the pros of vinyl? The myth of vinyl being able to reproduce sound better than CDs has been debunked many times, so forget about that. "CD rot" is another myth that's been propagated by vinyl enthusiasts, but that was only an issue in the pressing process of a particular pressing plant, and it was fixed 20 years ago. In general, your CDs are not gonna "rot".

Then there's the issue cover art, and obviously art usually looks better in bigger size, so I agree it looks nicer on vinyl covers. But I tend to buy records mostly for the music, not to look at pretty pictures, so this is not a big issue. And the bigger size also means vinyl takes more space in your flat.

So yeah, that's the reason why I only buy vinyl if there's no other option, and why I don't get choosing it over other formats.

I think there is still plenty to be said for the tactile pleasures of vinyl. Taking the record out of the cover, lowering it onto the spindle, getting the stylus in the right place and lowering the arm down, then hearing the kwika-kwika-floop as the needle finds the groove. These are small but not insignificant pleasures compared to the business of inserting a CD in a tray. Also a nice turntable is an aesthetically pleasurable device to have in one's front room

lots of records only have one track per side

they can be pitched up or down for mixing with

its a pretty redundant argument, these people who aren't concerned with the format sure seem to be paying attention to what format other people might be playing

XP^^^^This is essentially how I feel. If you want to invoke logic you can but it's an aesthetic choice governed by using all of your senses not just one. I can't drink a cup of tea out of a light blue or green coloured mug no matter how well brewed it is. Pour the same brew into a white mug and it becomes my favourite drink. The taste is exactly the same but the colour isn't right in the first instance and the way you perceive something has a massive effect on the way you appreciate it.

I don't care what format other people are using, but like with Nick, it irritates me when people tout vinyl as the superior format without any good justification, and that tends to happen a lot among music geeks these days. People are free to buy and listen to vinyl if that's what they prefer, but if they start saying to me that vinyl is the best, I have no problem explaining why it isn't, to me.

And sure, vinyls can "pitched up or down for mixing with", and obviously if you're a DJ vinyl is probably the best format. But most people who buy music aren't, and to them pitching isn't very important.

(xpost)

cds feel v disposable to me i don't really respect them that much, i never have, even when it took me a month to save enough money to buy one.

some music only sounds great on cd tho, with the full freq range available. my little classical / ecm / sound art cd collection is one of my most treasured things. i don't think i'll miss cds that much on the whole tho, high quality digital audio files can do that job better than cds can.

records are bizarre. limited bandwidth, will sound drastically different depending on your equipment. they age badly, get dirty, they're bloody massive, heavy, get fucked up easily but they make me smile. they inspire a different way of listening that i prefer. i like having the two sides, i find i explore the end of albums a lot more. some music also really benefits from having the limited bandwidth. i like the sound and the ridiculousness of them. music is cool and cds just aren't.

wrt to sound quality, they're different, all formats are slightly different. i do love digital but not as much as i love analogue. i don't care how many times a second you're sampling the sound, it still goes through a adc-dac conversion, it becomes static, stuck in time, it makes things bland.

i really do find format has a huge impact on my enjoyment of something. i found this on LP a while back:

http://www.discogs.com/Catherine-Ribeiro-Alpes-Paix/release/1274544?ev=rr

fell in madly in love with her, got the 4 cd boxset of reissues and it's just. not. the. same. thing. at all! hypnotic french psych folk prog sounds better when it's warbling a bit. her voice sounds better when it distorts in the high end and the shillness is toned down a bit, the silences work better when there are crackles and pops in the background, the album art doesn't feel like album art when it's 1/4 the size and printed on flimsy card.

if they start saying to me that vinyl is the best, I have no problem explaining why it isn't, to me.

which is the person that said it was the best, that you were responding to?

otoh, music for 18 musicians, for example, is a totally different thing on record, the information that's lost (those 'singing' harmonics dancing around right up there at the top) are all warbly and sometimes non-existant on my copy, and isn't that kind of the point of those pieces? when i've seen Steve Reich rehearsing it, that's the area where he seems to focus his attention.

I have a several friends (music collectors, and general vinyl fetishists) who are saying that quite often.

(x-post)