new... donald fagen... solo album?!?

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I missed the show last night, but here's a blog report from someone who was there:

http://www.jordanhoffman.com/archives/2006/03/the_great_pagod.html

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:42 (twenty years ago)

xpost
I think it's not nearly as bad (not bad at all, really) as I feared it could have been, but it has that overly 'polite' production that sort of turned me off the last 2 dan albums. I still like "h gang" a lot, though.

b'angelo, Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:42 (twenty years ago)

I missed the show last night, but here's a blog report from someone who was there:

i know that guy!

Knute Rockne, All American (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:55 (twenty years ago)

I don't. I just plucked it at random from Technorati. Wish I'd been there though, especially when I read that he played a lot of stuff from Nightfly. Unfortunately Tuesday nights are tough for me, esp. with an early start time like 8.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:57 (twenty years ago)

fagen reminds me of a particular vocalist on the title track, but i can't place who it is.

Knute Rockne, All American (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:03 (twenty years ago)

Nothing from Kamakiriad! Bummer, I like a lot of the tunes on that album

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 23:10 (twenty years ago)

ugh, Kamakiriad was terrible. i really didn't give it enough time but it did nothing for me. this one is pretty great. i feared the overly 'polite' production, but i think the production is actually really nice. it's thick. nothing too smooth jazzy. didn't really like the fake white funk of "Brite Nitegown". (isn't that what Musicology sounded like?). too crisp and clean. H Gang, the title track (especially the reprise) and What I Do (those powerchords) are my faves so far.

team jaxon (jaxon), Friday, 10 March 2006 01:03 (twenty years ago)

from www.donaldfagen.com
3/9/2006 - Boston Opera show rescheduled

Due to illness, the Donald Fagen show this evening, Thursday, March 9, 2006 at Boston's Opera House has been rescheduled for Saturday, March 11, 2006. All tickets for the Thursday night postponement at the Opera House will be honored on Saturday night, March 11, 2006, including those arranged through the VIP fan program "I Love All Access."

Lame, now I may not be able to go.

methanie tanner (methanie tanner), Friday, 10 March 2006 04:06 (twenty years ago)

"illness" ..... Has he been hanging with Chan ???

timmy tannin (pompous), Friday, 10 March 2006 04:32 (twenty years ago)

Chris: So you wouldn't consider, say, rap music to be new?

Donald: Well, I mean it's more of a theatrical forum really...or poetry with music type of thing, which certainly isn't new. And the beats are basically funk, or something else, only played by machines, it's really not...it doesn't sound new to me. I mean, what's new about it?

Chris: Well...

Donald: I mean, they use sampling technology to put out a blip of sound, but it's really like an orchestral hit will be sampled and then so...you know and maybe they do...like if they appear very rapidly, that's something maybe an orchestra couldn't do, because it happens faster than an orchestra could play it but...it's not what I would call a really significant change or anything.

Chris: So no real validity to the art of sampling, in your opinion?

Donald: Well it all sounds so canned that it's basically...since they use drum machines and sequences for even the ballads now…people are used to it now, but to me, it also sounds like the kick drum comes in the wrong place, or it sounds wrong. You know like it's...there's really something wrong with the groove. Although, they're getting better at mimicking real grooves. To me there's always something, and the fact that it's unchanging makes it sound, it may be hypnotic, but it has no dynamics, and it has no shape.

And what's more, if you want to continue with the technical thing, as far as the other instruments are concerned, if you use synthesizers for all the keyboards and stuff like that, they're always out of tune, technically, and I can hear it. It's like the top end is always a little flat, and the bottom end is always a little sharp, because the keyboards aren't what they call "stretched." Like, when a piano tuner tunes a piano, aside from being tempered, they'll stretch the tops of the harmonics so they aren't flat on the top and sharp on the bottom. So they're...there's no groove and they're out of tune.

Le Baaderonixx de Clignancourt (baaderonixx), Friday, 10 March 2006 14:09 (twenty years ago)

DONALD FAGEN IN BEING GEIR HONGRO SHOCKER

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 10 March 2006 16:36 (twenty years ago)

geir hongro if geir actually understood how the fundamentals of music worked

Knute Rockne, All American (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 10 March 2006 16:56 (twenty years ago)

This is totally different than the argument that Geir would make. Geir says that hip-hop sucks because it sacrifices melody in favor of the rhythm. Fagen is saying that hip-hop sucks because it's not even that good at the rhythm part.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 10 March 2006 17:27 (twenty years ago)

sadly, fagen's also not acknowledging that that sort of rhythm part has any aesthetic validity. i tend to agree about the dynamics and shape in "live" music being a bit more compelling than the infinite loop of a single sample, but obv. hip-hop has come a long way from being that.

Knute Rockne, All American (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 10 March 2006 18:17 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I mean I tend to agree with that. The deck is kind of stacked against a guy working with a drum machine vs. what a very good drummer with an old-fashioned drum kit can do. Obviously you have a much broader palette of sounds with a sampler, yet a good drummer can get a pretty astonishing variety of sounds out of their kit, and the control over attack and volume and dynamics that a real drum kit offers is very hard to duplicate with even the best sample-based system. And since drum machines make it so easy to be lazy, a lot of bad samey-sounding beats get made. The novelty of hearing a car horn or something for the snare part is fun for a while, but sooner or later you want to hear grooves that live and breathe.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 10 March 2006 18:46 (twenty years ago)

It's kind of funny that Fagen has turned against the use of sequencers when Steely Dan was one of the first bands to use them on a major studio album:

After a long wait, Gaucho was released to an eager audience. ...it should be noted that, drum-wise, this album is much simpler than previous ones. Except for a Purdie shuffle on "Babylon Sisters" and Porcaro's odd-meter forays on "Gaucho," the rhythms are all 8th-note grooves. No cranking shuffles like "Black Friday" or jungle grooves like "I Got The News." Part of this might have been Becker and Fagen's desire to fully explore their WENDEL, a sequencing tool that could quantite, sanitize, and generally sterilize a drum track.

"That was Roger Nichols and the computers," says Marotta, who played on "Hey Nineteen" and "Time Out Of Mind". "WENDEL wasn't perfected then, so occasionally it was a little stilted. They were experimenting, taking little snippets of what we played and looping it."

According to Porcaro, "That's at a point when drum machine technology was just rearing its ugly head. There was a lot of talk about the future of quantizing and sequencing in real time. To a perfectionist, that was all really cool stuff. The title track was done to a Urei click. In fact it was all Urei except 'Hey Nineteen,' which is WENDEL."

from http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/md1.htm

o. nate (onate), Friday, 10 March 2006 18:55 (twenty years ago)

Also ssee Roger Nichols bio on Wikipedia:

In 1978, Roger pioneered the technique of "digital drum replacement" by inventing the Wendel sampling drum machine, which was used to provide drum and percussion sounds on Steely Dan's acclaimed Gaucho album. This technology is now commonplace in music production around the world.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 10 March 2006 19:00 (twenty years ago)

And since drum machines make it so easy to be lazy, a lot of bad samey-sounding beats get made.

DNOALD FAGEN DO U LIEK REGGAETON???

Knute Rockne, All American (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 10 March 2006 20:21 (twenty years ago)

"how the fundamentals of music worked "

um...there are "fundamentals of music" that work a particular way? news to me.

but yes, in fairness, fagen's argument is subtler and more specific than any that geir has ever made. however i still think he's misapplying a kind of "best practice" argument to a genre of music he probably isn't terribly invested in.

amateurist0, Friday, 10 March 2006 21:18 (twenty years ago)

"fundamentals" = just a working understanding of the physics of sound, i guess.

Knute Rockne, All American (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 10 March 2006 21:59 (twenty years ago)

um...there are "fundamentals of music" that work a particular way? news to me.

is the concept of two plus two making four also novel for you? 'cause if so I got all kindsa news you'll love

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Friday, 10 March 2006 22:42 (twenty years ago)

please explain, o wise one, you so smart

ninja hollered, Friday, 10 March 2006 23:22 (twenty years ago)

seriously, different genres of music (or more broadly, different musical traditions) have their own conventions. and there are mathematical principles behind tonality and such--but even tonality is optional for music. i'm not aware of any universal principles behind music except the very very broad ones repetition and pattern-making.

but i do think i see where jody is coming from.

thomas tallis's comment...well, explain yourself dude!

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 11 March 2006 02:55 (twenty years ago)

every genre of music has rules governing it; most genres (outside of atonal music) adhere to the same fundamental rules of tonality: despite what the now-greying-or-dead cheerleaders say, atonality didn't rewrite everything, either, it just constructed its own boutique model of things. (Other candidates for the-end-of-the-rules have also turned out to be different models with their own internal schemata.) Of course there're fundamentals of how notes within a given scale relate to one another, or don't, and of what's harmonious & what's dissonant - take it down to a real basic level. Play me a high C, now play me C below middle C. Now tell me which one's a bassier note. Congratulations, you just embraced one of the fundamentals of music that work in a particular way. These extend outward, to relations between notes played on different instruments & even in different scales (Phrygian mode played over a minor chord = sweet; played over a maj 7 = will usually sound like ass); these rules (and it's fair to call them "rules," as base as the whole concept of rules may seem to some: but rules aren't your enemy, just descriptions really) extend even to composition & are constantly in play: their actions just gets harder to describe.

(as an aside: it doesn't take wisdom, ninja hollered, just slight bit of intellectual curiosity)

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Saturday, 11 March 2006 03:05 (twenty years ago)

no, you smart guy, you sing nasal, you best

jeanne rod hill, Saturday, 11 March 2006 03:21 (twenty years ago)

This is nice. Lots of bass and Fagen's best singing since Nightfly I'd say. 'What I do' is an early fave.

Le Baaderonixx de Clignancourt (baaderonixx), Saturday, 11 March 2006 15:48 (twenty years ago)

It's kind if funny that Fagen is against drum machines and sequences when Keith Carlock essentially plays like one on the new record. There's a distinctive lack of "tasty licks" that brings the album down into blandville, as much as I love the singing/lyrics, the horns and a couple of the songs.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 11 March 2006 15:53 (twenty years ago)

"sequencers," that should say.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 11 March 2006 17:06 (twenty years ago)

Anyone know if the lyrics from this are online anywhere?

The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Monday, 13 March 2006 18:36 (twenty years ago)

So that's it? Is ILM wilfully ignoring this?

Le Baaderonixx de Benedict Canyon (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 14:41 (twenty years ago)

I'm really in love with the title track. The imagery is creepy and wonderful at the same time, and the melody is really great.

Some negative criticism: Security Joan seems more like a late Steely Dan tune than a Fagen solo one; the production feels really airless, so I was begging for some reverb to be plastered on something by the end; and the codas of some tracks go on and on without any building of tension or clever variation.

There's a lot of apocalyptic themes in the lyrics: the chorus of The Great Pagoda of Funn especially. Some of the lines in there really seize my attention, since they kind of tear at the edges of the slick little SD jazz/pop envelope by being disturbing.

Brakhage (brakhage), Sunday, 19 March 2006 00:11 (twenty years ago)

My cureent fave is "The Night Belongs To Mona", which reminds me of "Negative Girl" on Two against Nature. It has this bleak eerie quality that works pretty well for late period Fagen..

Le Baaderonixx de Benedict Canyon (baaderonixx), Sunday, 19 March 2006 00:19 (twenty years ago)

finally bought this today: it's excellent, and the sequencing is incredibly artful - it does this very slow expansive build, really gorgeous

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Sunday, 19 March 2006 00:51 (twenty years ago)

Excellent album. Sounds as though nothing has changed since "The Nightfly" (which is of course a good thing)

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 19 March 2006 14:32 (twenty years ago)

I hope the rest of it grows on me, but the only track that sticks in my mind is the title track.

def zep (calstars), Sunday, 19 March 2006 14:35 (twenty years ago)

Saw him in Chicago saturday evening. it was really great, actually, far surpassing my expectations. the only low spots were the one song from kamikiriad (teahouse something) and a very quick, strange encore, which seemed to be perhaps a chuck berry song or something? anticlimactic. Played a ton of stuff from the nightfly, black cow, home at last, third world man, FM. Band was unsurprisingly tight. I would absolutely say catch it if you're able to and maybe on the fence about going, don't know how much of the tour is left, though.

bangelo (bangelo), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 16:12 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...
I was at the Chicago show, too. The sound was great, and for the most part the song choices were fine, but---by the end, I wondered if Donald was perhaps feeling unwell. I know they cancelled a show out East the week before, and that WAS a strange, short encore----no title cut, no 'H Gang', it seemed like they couldn't wait to 'get off the stage, boys'.
We still had a great time---but were left feeling just a tad bit cheated.
'Teahouse on the Tracks" isn't a particularly interesting cut from "Kamakiriad", but "The Nightfly" and "Green Flower Street" were exceptional. If only the asshole behind me had come up for air, and stopped shouting and talking, literally, from the first note until the end of the show, it would have been even better. Drink yourself into a stupor at home, and listen to the CD all by your lonesome....

Clean Willy, Saturday, 8 April 2006 04:33 (twenty years ago)

Quite a dull album. What a disappointment.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 8 April 2006 11:35 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...
"Quite a dull album. What a disappointment." I couldn't agree more. I was really looking forward to it! I've been almost equally disappointed with the quality of many of the reviews, amateur and professional. Can't people hear the difference between this stuff and the older stuff?

One good review (mostly of the lyrics), by a pro writer, but not a musician at:

http://www.wrongturnjournal.com/ here's an excerpt (probably in violation of some copyright or something) :

Toth:

Which explains my disappointment with his new record and, to some extent, with the whole Steely Dan project these days. Don't get me wrong. There's lots to love on Fagen's latest, and the latter-day Dan recordings generally tremendous fun. But all of them show a much duller edge than the early work, musically and lyrically. Listening to Fagen's back catalog in concert, even throwaway B-sides like Here at the Western World are creepy and suggestive enough to keep me grinning. As Walker Percy used to say about Kafka: He would read his friends all those stories about alienation and misery, and they'd be rolling on the floor because it was all so true. (End of Toth excerpt)

Back to *my* post. I'm amazed to have to agree with a neo-con, but what he says is right.

Since I've been in the music biz and the music-ed biz for over 30 years, with a specialty in tuning systems and synthesizers, I do feel qualified to comment on a few things that Fagen says.

On the one hand, he's right that stretched tuning can be out-of-tune with un-stretched equal temperament. On the other hand, stretched tunings have been available for a long time on synthesizers, even old and humble synths like the Roland D-50. (available since the mid-80's.) So there's something a little funny about this way of thinking. Also, stretched tuning is really important on acoustic pianos, but doesn't necessarily apply to situations without them. Every different kind of ensemble has a slightly different way of tuning, with out-of-tuneness being very important to the sound of some of them. (Marching bands don't sound like marching bands unless they're out-of-tune by upwards of 50 cents...)

Same sort of response to the issue of timing using sequencers and/or computers. For a while in the infancy of MIDI, timing delays and software limitations were a real problem.
Not anymore.

Fagen hears what he hears--he's not just making it up, but there's a point where having an accurate ear becomes sheer neurotic fussiness and a refusal to "try new things". A failure to get the big picture.

Anyway, the main problem with Morph is the drumming and the rhythmic interaction of the other parts. Becker seems to have contributed greatly to making the hocketing really *springy*--the grooves in previous efforts have a lot of lift or bounce. (Even lazy grooves like My Rival from Gaucho have more *sproing* in them than do the new tunes on Morph.
New stuff doesn't rock, swing, or groove. It plods.

There's also very little lift or release in the choruses.

A different kind of complaint about the new stuff is about the music as setting for the scenario created by the lyrics. I mean something like tone-painting or film-scoring. In almost every Dan tune from the past, there was something brilliant about the relation between lyrics and music. Now, it feels like you could amost interchange the lyrics of one song with the music of another--with a few adjustments--and come up with something that makes almost as much sense.

Random comment--Pagoda, if I'm not mistaken is in D Lydian. Cool to have a pop tune in Lydian. But give me the darker Phrygian of Babylon Sisters any day. I mean, Pagoda has a nice long line, but it still _plods_. And the guitar solo is dutiful but uninspired--not nec. the fault of guitarist--he had some hard changes to pick his way thru.

Anyhoo.

Caleb Morgan (cal man), Monday, 24 April 2006 13:48 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

Has he ever sounded more beautifully knackered and bored than on "What I Do?" It should loop on for eternity as he croons away to himself and the backing singers gently take the piss.

Noodle Vague, Friday, 18 January 2008 17:18 (eighteen years ago)

I found it quite good, but obv. no "The Nightfly", which IMO is even better than any Steely Dan album.

Geir Hongro, Friday, 18 January 2008 20:42 (eighteen years ago)

four years pass...

"I'm Not The Same Without You" streaming in Rolling Stone. Good piano and harmonica parts.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 17 September 2012 16:39 (thirteen years ago)

i'm evolving at a really astounding rate of speed
into something way cooler
than what i was before

a+ lyrics

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 17 September 2012 16:41 (thirteen years ago)

i don't need sleep anymore
but if i closed my eyes
i'd sleep the sleep of the gods
i'm not the same without you

yesssssss

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 17 September 2012 16:44 (thirteen years ago)

lol brad

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 17 September 2012 16:47 (thirteen years ago)

this is REALLY good man

original bgm, Monday, 17 September 2012 16:54 (thirteen years ago)

really feelin that groove at the end

original bgm, Monday, 17 September 2012 16:56 (thirteen years ago)

"I can hold my breath
for a really long time"

lol love this song

listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 17 September 2012 17:39 (thirteen years ago)

got a nice hook too!

listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 17 September 2012 17:42 (thirteen years ago)

this fucking rules and I had no idea it was coming. thank you based fagen

Inconceivable (to the entire world) (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 17 September 2012 19:05 (thirteen years ago)

Oh right -- he dipped his mustache into a tomato bisque.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 January 2016 23:57 (ten years ago)

!

calstars, Friday, 8 January 2016 00:13 (ten years ago)


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