St Vincent - s/t (25 February 2014)

I don't think stuff like this is lo-fi, it's just hyper stylized in its distortion and abrasiveness, like Dave Fridmann productions (think: Flaming Lips).

otm, this record actually sounds hi-fi and expensive to me (drums especially!). the parts where the guitar sounds like it was recorded in that dry direct way (no amp) all feel like very intentional choices.

I don't understand Lex's definition of lo-fi if he thinks this album qualifies.

isn't Mr Pretend's whole thing that he doesn't like anything with a remote whiff of rockism or stuff that Q/Mojo writers would ride for? so why would he fuck with her in the first place? am surprised he likes Sky Ferreira…and it would seem "lo-fi" connotes "music not made in order to compete with Danity Kane's "Bye baby" to him.

her shit made no impression on me until I heard the "garbage/masturbate" couplet, and the tune went straight in the memory bank. Just watched her do the song on Colbert, and yesterday watched her talk to Matt Sweeney on his show. She mentioned he uncle Tuck from Tuck and Patti, and I don't think Sweeney had any idea that he was a big cheese in neo-Wes Montgomery/Jim hall guitar mill-yurr.

I don't know if this is the same as the lo-fi thing others are talking about but the effects used on the instrumentation especially the percussion evoke like a whirring collection of intricate mechanical toy instruments, like an intentional attempt to create this constrained miniaturized feeling

there is absolutely nothing lo-fi about this album

yeah, if you find it lo-fi it might be time to invest in some hi-fi: http://www.nathanmarciniak.com/elemental/

some vestigial strands of twee still in the dna

Listening now, pretty much sounds like the last couple of St. Vincent records. I agree the production/aesthetic lets the songs down. I always liked her first album because it seemed fussy and art-rocky but less interested in sublimating the songs in service of some weirdly stifling studio approach. A song like "Now Now" breathes like little of her recent stuff does. She has such a vision that I can't imagine someone telling her what to do - like Prince! - but I still wish she found the right person to tell her what to do, or what not to do, or push her outside of her safety zone, which only sounds safe, ironically, because she keeps doing it. Or maybe a better/looser rhythm section would do the trick, too.

I dunno. She seems to be doing more than well for herself, so what do I know.

It's like even when she leaves space in the music it doesn't feel spare. Even the quiet bits feel dense and exhausting, sometimes in a cool way, sometimes just ... exhausting.

Man, I love Death by Audio pedals. What doesn't sound better though a Death by Audio pedal.

"Pedalboard the size of a canoe" is the single most ~Canadian~ thing anyone on this board has ever said.

This is suffering in my ears by direct comparison with the Neneh Cherry, which is superfically quite similar (electronic production; female voice), but I suspect is trying to do something quite different, and I'm just much more 'ooooh' about the Neneh right now for whatever reason. I think this is good, and interesting, but I've not gone 'fuck me, this is great' at it yet, and I have at several moments of the Neneh.

The Neneh is a great comparison, not because they have a lot in common, but because you can hear how looser, sparer, "live"-er production can successfully support a strong personality. Clark's production doesn't exactly detract, but on her record, everything has personality, but she's got more than enough herself to carry the record without all the whirligigs and whatnots clanking and blooping and buzzing around. But then, Neneh has a few decades of experience over Clark, and a lot less to prove. Very different career places get very different results.

But then, Neneh has a few decades of experience over Clark, and a lot less to prove. Very different career places get very different results.

Yes, good points. "Buffalo Stance" is absolutely stuffed with sonic gimmicks, even for the time.

people have said "b-b-but you like the neneh cherry album" a couple of times after i've complained about st vincent now, i can't really explain why one rough, scratchy-sounding production is so off-putting while the other one i'm enjoying exploring (and suspect it's a bit of a false comparison given that they're different albums in most other respects) but neneh's album is a lot looser and sparser to my ears, and she's foregrounded a lot more over the rumbles and clanks

i had been vaguely wondering whether the neneh album deserves its own thread, it's a really terrific album but all the commentary so far (about four posters) is on the "buffalo stance" thread

It is a great album and there are some sonic similarities but Clark's lyrics are 100x better than Neneh's if you're into words and that.

v possibly true but neneh really sells her lyrics better (none of st v's registered that much apart from the masturbate line which i think i built up too much in my head before hearing it)

You should check out Prince Johnny for starters.

The only lyric that registered on Blank Project was "Life is going faster like a bus that runs me over" and that was for the wrong reasons.

i can see why one might prefer the stark & relatively organic-sounding neneh cherry album to st. vincent's (well-described) whirligigs and whatnots, but i enjoy the kaleidoscopic palette and compulsive filigree for their own sake. there's something quite tense about much of st. vincent, as though it rides, serene or twitching, atop a wave of anxiety. this quality is present in clark's mannered delivery as much as in the hyperkinetic music around her. "birth in reverse" reminds me strongly of early xtc, who share that jittery, seam-bursting intensity and kitchen sink sonics. also: tune-yards, talking heads, marnie stern, etc.

i do agree that the songs, while extremely enjoyable, aren't terribly catchy. i don't go around singing them, have to struggle to remember how a single song goes whenever i look at the tracklist. and i've listened to the album several times. i don't see this as a fault, as some music takes a bit longer to work its way in, and i enjoy st. vincent enough to happily put in whatever time might be required.

Lex I want you to come round my house and listen to these records with me. 'Rough' and 'scratchy' doesn't suit either of them as a description afaic; these both sound excellent and expensive and modern and hi-fi to me, albeit in different ways. I think some people have been using lo-fi in a really weird way that confuses me no end.

^^^

It's cool. Lex uses "Lo-fi" as a philosophical stance, indicating "indie-rock" rather than any kind of musical one.

lex, I dislike this record and Congletno but it's far from rough or scratchy.

*Congleton

xp Oh I think they're really catchy. Melody's never been a problem for St V imo.

i reject your shiny expensive consumerist stereo system on ideological grounds nick

TBF, I think the Neneh sounds pretty raw. In a good way, it sounds like a live radio session or something rather than a studio construct, particularly her vocals, which sound conspicuously under-produced, also in a good way.

i am listening to "prince johnny" and i take nothing back about "rough" or "lo-fi"! the guitars and the horrible drums, how does anyone not think those are demo-sounding.

actually reading the lyrics and they ARE kinda great but she's not selling them to me effectively and if there's any immediate hook it's eluding me completely

i should not get bogged down in threads about artists i dislike and don't intend to give more time but no one's talking about neneh

Is the Neneh album streaming anywhere (not spotify)?

But you love shiny expensive consumerist music, dude? (And most of my stereo is made up of components manufactured by small British and European companies, but whatever...)

http://www.notendownload.com/8/dpshopgrafiken/png/vorschaudruck/7070064_thumb.png

There's a bit of distortion on Prince Johnny, for instance (and deliberately on a lot of things she does; it's clearly an aesthetic thing for her), but man, the way this is mixed, the synth-vocals in the left channel; this is really deliberate and purposeful and expensive-sounding. Lo-fi to me says "recorded in a basement on a 4-track, sounds like shit, because we had no money and no other option".

As for lyrics being good, isolating them to judge quality is false logic; they have to work in context of song, arrangement, production, performativity.

Also thanks for the new display name!

Damn the length.

drums sound great on the neneh record, drums sound terrible on the st. vincent record

Drums sound real on the Neneh record, and very machine-y on the Vincent record; I prefer the former, certainly, but the latter isn't 'terrible', to my ears; it's an aesthetic choice for a very artificial-sounding record.

i am listening to "prince johnny" and i take nothing back about "rough" or "lo-fi"! the guitars and the horrible drums, how does anyone not think those are demo-sounding.

― lex pretend

The drums on the St. Vincent album sound fine to me. No idea why you're picking them out as a weakness on this album. Compare the drums on Prince Johnny to some of the songs on that Amel Larrieux album you love (Afraid and I Do Take in particular) How come she can get away with that sound? Some of those songs have much more of demo feel to them too, more than the St. Vincent album. I'm not saying it's a bad thing on Amel's album, I love that record. I just don't see the difference really. St. Vincent's album sounds so great and unique to me because she mixes styles very successfully. Her songs wouldn't be improved by live drums.

I do not not not understand why people continue to insist that "St Vincent" mayn't be described as lo-fi. "Prince Johnny" is trashy, over-compressed, filtered drum machines, the vocals are distorted, and this loud-as-shit Mellotron which is by definition a lo-fi instrument (and one that sinks records imo); unfortunately unable to really make comments about the frequency spectrum because I only have streaming but it sounds like the frequencies top out at 2kHz, there's definitely no sibilance on the vocals or splash (or presence) on the drums. Sorry to get all audio engineer in here but people are making things personal re: a very real and normal aural response

That makes me wonder is the streaming is on a different master, although I've not sat with this at the hi-fi properly all the way through yet.

I guess I'm stuck thinking "this is low-pass filtered because it was recorded on a boombox" = lo-fi, while "this is low-pass filtered because they low-pass filtered it in their fancy studio" = something else.

but goon tie clearly has the knowledge from the synth thread, so I will accept this as lo-fi. I just thought lo-fi was supposed to invoke bootleg cassette nostalgia.

No for real! Obv this is not a record made in the genre of "lo-fi". I'm defending the right of others to say something sounds lo-fi, when clearly there have been decisions made to make it sound "dirty" in a way that has been destructive to many instrument's higher frequencies. This isn't just a streaming thing-- though I don't trust the audio quality of streams-- I am listening to Tristan Murail Youtubes this morning and despite Youtube's highly restrictive lowpass filter there is tonnes of harmonic information here that is non-existent on Youtubes of "Prince Johnny".

If anybody hears the drums on "Prince Johnny" and thinks "wow what gloriously recorded drums, and in such high fidelity!" then there is nothing I can say to help you

Well no, of course not, but gloriously recorded, high fidelity, live-sounding drums would be totally alien to her aesthetic.

that's exactly why i was saying i should have known beforehand i wouldn't like it. idk, i saw good writing and interesting interviews and lots of talk about her and i was suckered in but this aesthetic is just...i can't even hear where the good bits are, it's alien to me

"Prince Johnny" is trashy, over-compressed, filtered drum machines

it's trashy, over-compressed, filtered live drums! which are way harder to record and make sound this full. they might have cut the live drums into samples and sequenced them, but her albums have lots of live drums that have been mixed to sound like samples & drum machines.

listen to the drums on 'bring me your loves', live but very meticulously recorded in a nice studio (live snare mixed into two tracks with different sounds and panned hard left & right, over what sounds like a programmed kick sample).

Haven't heard this record yet, enjoying all the talk. I just wanted to butt in to say that I absolutely love ilm for posts like this:

listen to the drums on 'bring me your loves', live but very meticulously recorded in a nice studio (live snare mixed into two tracks with different sounds and panned hard left & right, over what sounds like a programmed kick sample).

Like I love seeing someone that can nail this down so nicely for a non-drummer to get a handle on it.

"Bring Me Your Loves" is my favourite track FYI, \m/ and yeah the snare sounds awesome on it, cymbals too, (though sampled, I reckon)-- as does the granulatey fuzz solo on that guitar.

Yeah yeah not a drum machine on "Prince Johnny" but quantized and looped and run through an H919 emulator. There is a sliding scale of quality for that super straight and filtered drum "loop" sound with "The First Taste" as heaven and the remix of "Hey Jupiter" as hell.

Never heard of St. Vincent until I saw her on Colbert the other night.
I liked it and she seemed pretty interesting.