Warpaint

this record is fascinating. the word "elliptical" doesn't even sum up how they handle every instrument that's not bass, drums, or vox.

i think what the pitchfork review missed is that this is less a collection of 12 songs than 1 song with 12 movements.

agreed i really really enjoy this album

this record is hypnotizing

The Pitchfork review is hilariously off the mark, but a perfect example of why many Pitchfork reviews are hilariously off the mark: the reviewer is more concerned with writing a mini-essay about his pet thesis (i.e., Warpaint is a modern version of a late-90s alt rock album) than he is with actually reviewing the music on the album he was assigned to review.

Despite the reviewer's insistence that Nigel Godrich mixing this album somehow makes it into OK Computer 2.0, it reminds me far more of the Slits' Cut in that it seems to reflect a uniquely female rejection of standard rock conventions, and of standard musical conventions, such as resolution, verse-chorus-verse song structure, etc. And, although it's not a jazz record, it stands in the same relation to rock that Miles Davis's Nefertiti does to jazz, in that it's almost backwards or upside-down music, with the drums taking the role of lead instrument and everything else providing the rhythmic pulse.

But, beyond the argument about which other records this sounds like, I agree with ciderpress and call all destroyer that the record is fascinating on its own terms. The first few times I listened to it, I did think it was a formless mess with a great mood, but repeated listens do reveal structures, hooks, melodies, etc. They may not be conventional structures, hooks, and melodies, but they are there.

spot on, driver 8

2nded, esp the slits reference.

jah great post

I ibject to the idea that its a "uniquely female rejection". It's simply dream pop taken to its logical conclusion of somnambulant wondering. That critical appraisals are influenced by the gender of the musicians largely reflects a very long cultural history of dream-like females (as muses, goddesses etc.).

object, not ibject, obv.

DING DING DING DING DING

(OTM bell)

I ibject to the idea that its a "uniquely female rejection". It's simply dream pop taken to its logical conclusion of somnambulant wondering. That critical appraisals are influenced by the gender of the musicians largely reflects a very long cultural history of dream-like females (as muses, goddesses etc.)

I guess I'm going to contradict myself to some degree here, but a female-dominated dream-pop/shoegaze band such as Lush didn't really reject conventional pop song structures so much as they played conventional pop song structures through a battery of effects pedals.

I don't know enough about Warpaint to know whether they have the same sort of "we're a band of feminists" manifesto that I think the Slits had, or whether they simply view themselves as a band that just happens to be four women. Certainly their all-female such as Savages doesn't take the languid dream pop approach to music, I don't think women have to take that approach to music by any means, but I do still think that there is something uniquely female in the approach taken by the Slits and Warpaint, almost like that of the Shaggs, to some degree: they have made up their own way of playing their instruments, one that has very little to do with conventional notions of how rock music ought to be played. And for better or for worse, "conventional notions of how rock music ought to be played" largely equals "male notions of how rock music ought to be played."

Meant to type "their all-female contemporaries Savages"

Please, just stop.

OK, will do. Fantastic record regardless.

this record definitely has hooks, to me, it's just harmonically slippery, often just tracing out the chords rather than filling them in. there's plenty of other records that do the same thing though the only ones i can think of at the moment do it via production/timbre rather than via arrangement like they're doing here (e.g. loveless)

his record definitely has hooks

The moment where the singer (by the standards of this record) shouts out "I … just … need … a … BREAK!" is one of them.

I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that both groups of women, but I think both Warpaint and The Slits have a similar sense of space and dub in their music, though they do different things with those elements.

both groups ARE women, not OF women

are both of?

Women don't 'have' to do anything, whether they're in a band or not. And Carole King objects to you denigrating her songwriting.

So whilst your correct that the P4K review was about someone's undergrad hypothesis more than the music qua music, you then immediately did EXACTLY THE SAME THING by trying to cast their songwriting as 'feminine'.

You're.

Also, FUCK LOADS of male dreampop / jam bands.

Y'know, 'The Slits and Warpaint have a similar sense of space and non-linearity in their music, informed by dub, creating a dream-like effect' is a really good, strong, cogent argument which tells me a lot about both bands and their musical aesthetics.

'The Slits and Warpaint, (and some other totally unrelated female bands I can't quite shoehorn into my argument) have a poorly thought out ~mysterious lady-way~ of Not Being Rock Male' is garbage, it's sexist, it's not even wrong. Try again.

Of *course* gender informs artists and their worldviews, and some bands make a feature of that, including but not limited to The Slits. But to go from one particular female artist's experience of how their gender affects their music, to generalising about how ~all ladies be dreamlike~ and do and don't and should and shouldn't do with regard to "rock conventions"? You're not going to get away with that lazy, bad, determinative kind of thinking on ILX.

Warpaint is coming from a different place but sometimes they remind me of Doves, just the way the records kind of drift off at points

So whilst your correct that the P4K review was about someone's undergrad hypothesis more than the music qua music, you then immediately did EXACTLY THE SAME THING by trying to cast their songwriting as 'feminine'.

You're correct, I am guilty of the same thing as the Pitchfork reviewer. However, if I wrote for Pitchfork (which mercifully I don't), and I was assigned to review an album, I would try to focus more on the musical merit of the album and less on underaged hypotheses about music in general. On a message board, I will share my undergrad hypotheses about music. I'm sorry that I seem to have pushed Autotelic's buttons, but I do see parallels between the musical approaches of the Slits and Warpaint, although I never said that all female rock musicians do or must take that approach, and I'm not sure where that straw man argument came from.

As I said once above, where I fundamentally disagree with the Pitchfork reviewer is with his artistic assessment of the album as an album, I certainly don't think it's a "5.7' album, or whatever number score he assigned to it. It's one of the better albums I've heard in a long time, and I'm sorry I brought up the gender issue at all and pissed Autotelic off, because ultimately what's important to me is that this is a very good album on its own terms

I'd love to see a poll asking is this a good album y/n. I'm still crazy about it, and it seems like most of this thread is, too, but a lot of my critic friends and music lover friends (including ones that liked the first Warpaint album, which I still haven't heard) wrote this LP off after just a listen or two. As much as I'd disagree with a 5.7 score, I think it might be the consensus.

I like this one a lot more than the previous one, which I think I played twice before going "well that's neat" and then ignoring it

Intro -> Keep It Healthy -> Love Is to Die ropes me into a full album listen every time. I can tell this is informed by dub bc my instinct is to play it at a party. and those dearest to me tell me that they hate the sleepy dub music I always try to play at parties.

a lot of my critic friends and music lover friends (including ones that liked the first Warpaint album, which I still haven't heard) wrote this LP off after just a listen or two

This is truly an album that takes more than one or two listens to get. I kept listening beyond that because I liked the mood of it, but it took me more than two listens to grasp what they were trying to do and begin to differentiate the songs from each other.

I'd love to see a poll asking is this a good album y/n. I'm still crazy about it, and it seems like most of this thread is, too, but a lot of my critic friends and music lover friends (including ones that liked the first Warpaint album, which I still haven't heard) wrote this LP off after just a listen or two. As much as I'd disagree with a 5.7 score, I think it might be the consensus.

― Evan R, Tuesday, February 18, 2014 2:07 PM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think everyone was expecting them to tighten up. the other album and ep have some cool stuff but lots of dull moments. they sort of flipped the script by loosening up, a lot. thus you get these reviews working of a preconceived narrative.

i mean i was expecting them to tighten up too and i posted in this thread to that effect, but it didn't take me more than one listen to realize they were up to something else entirely and it was something i was more or less down with.

This would be a very boring album if they tightened it up.

Anyway, I thought I detected a bit of anti-L.A. backlash and resentment in a few of the reviews when this came out, which I thought was weird and unfair. Bands using inflated budgets to make expensive, unexpected, non-commercial albums was one of the most exciting things about the '90s imo

loving this! listened to it several times yesterday on spotifify, after buying the vinyl as an apt decoration. it's loose and a bit abstract but by no means songless, hookless. vibe can suffice, and while this thing's got that in spades, it's not trying to get by on mood alone. "love is to die" got stuck in my head on the first pass and has stayed there locked in tight (weird key jump tho). "biggie" and "disco/very" are pretty immediate too. i'm not gonna claim it's got a lot of pop potential, cuz it clearly doesn't, but that's hardly a sin, right?

a bit surprised on my initial listen by the all the slits drop. opening tracks put me in mind of the xx more than anything else, a blurred out version anyway, along with recent blonde redhead albums and perhaps the raincoats (if we have to reach for gender-matched postpunk equivalents). by the time "disco/very" and "go in" roll around, of course, the slits comparisons start to make sense, but that's only part of what the album's up to.

are there any good positive reviews of this record i can read? it's such a self-evidently good record to me.

i know! like if you like post-punkish type music how can ppl not like this???

in fairness, I feel the same way about Savages and half of you guys were not about that album at all

savages isn't bad per se, but just such slavish duplication & i never ended up wanting to listen to it.

i might have been to harsh on them, i shouldn't discourage England when they have a big indie band that at least tries not to be as weak as wet toilet paper.

this feels pretty distinctive

w ums on this

i was reading the liner notes this morning and realized that one of them is married to chris cunningham, who took the photos used in the album art.

Gonna listen to Savages for the next hour now just to spite you all!

i was reading the liner notes this morning and realized that one of them is married to chris cunningham, who took the photos used in the album art.

― call all destroyer, Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:03 PM

WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THIS OR BB GET VERY VERY VERY UPSET.

Cunningham has also filmed a forthcoming documentary about the making of the album.

wld watch

HOW DARE CHRIS CUNNINGHAM MARRY A DIRTY DRONEROCK BASSIST THAT ISN'T ME. HOW DARE HE.

Wait, no, sorry, I forgot, I'm married to Interpol's haircuts now, never mind.

i love the fact that they got all these a-list music dudes involved so they could make a completely insular and weird record. well done, ladies!

o weird, did not know that! i did notice jenny's thank you to "cc" while reading the liners ("my beautiful husband and best friend"). stuck out because she's the only band member to so pointed thank a significant other.

does this mean that the song "cc" is about chris? suppose it must...

xp back to cad on the thank yous

OMG, women in having individual tastes independent if their "a-list music dudes" partners shocker!

i was talking about flood and nigel godrich more than cc but please feel free to never respond to my posts

xpost

that's not what anyone said

i guess i'm surprised that any album involving flood and nigel goodritch in 2014 could be actually interesting