the bats: C/D

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Reading this thread made me dig out "Daddy's Highway" again, still sounds great. I like the way a lot of those Flying Nun bands would have this vague prog / Genesis influence creeping in very subtly without worrying about how uncool it was. Maybe something to do with geographical isolation, or am I being patronising? Anyway, The Bats / Chills / Able Tasmans etc = Velvet Underground ripoff without all the goth posturing you'd get from JAMC et al, hence CLASSIC in almost every way.

― Matt #2 (Matt #2), Sunday, 6 November 2005 11:35 (twenty years ago)

It's a bit hard to fetishise Christchurch though.

― Good Dog (Good Dog), Sunday, 6 November 2005 11:43 (twenty years ago)

the bats are like a warm blanket. it's easy to slip into the same happy mode as when you first heard them. it's timid and humble, sure, oh what insults, but so was most flying nun music. that was part of the appeal for me. no bluster just some fantastic music. now flying nun has the exact opposite brash, stupid bands without any ability. which is better?

― keyth (keyth), Sunday, 6 November 2005 14:10 (twenty years ago)

Maybe you'll just listen to it a second time and get over the interest? I too live in NZ, lucky me, oddly I meet plenty of people who're into "decent bands", they make life v sad. Donut would you give a fuck for the Bats if they came from somewhere else?
-- Schwip Schwap

Schwip, how old are you? I'm not asking this in a demeaning way. I'm generally curious if there is a new generation of folks in NZ who have, somehow, taken the mid-to-late 80s FN roster very bitterly for some reason. That seriously interests me, and doesn't necessarily sadden me, unless someone makes really lame sweeping generalizations/insults about people who DO like these bands like you and apparently others are making.

To answer your question: what if the Bats weren't from NZ. Jeez.. hmmm, um what if Coldplay were from Germany? What if Creed were from Namibia? How to hell am I supposed to answer these questions? Alternate-universe questions poised as refutations make no sense at all.

― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:28 (twenty years ago)

The point is (and Ned is right about me being from NZ, and that I've inadvertently seen them live about 15 times) that they are fucking boring and twee, without having interesting lyrics, stage prescence, or any sense of mystique at all. And those whose who say that this stuff doesn't matter - that it's "good music" - is to act as if music exists in a vacuum. No, one does not listen to first-wave UK punk without thinking of 1977 London. And one shouldn't listen to the Bats without thinking of 1989 South Island: woollen socks, boredom, a a band whose best chorus goes : "it doesn't look good / I'm feeling like a block of wood."

― paulhw (paulhw), Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:51 (twenty years ago)

saying the bats don't have stage presence is a bit of a bizarre statement to me - paul keen simply oozes infectious enthusiasm, whilst the whole group locks together so well in a live setting.

i say this despite being not too impressed with the new record - sure there are some nice new tracks, but it feels a little half-baked... also - alastair was totally under-utilized.

― chris andrews (fraew), Monday, 7 November 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

Paul's point - about "good music" being a rather red-herring term; context is always important - is a good one, but it's still quite odd to find people hating on the Bats. FFS, it's like hating on milk. Maybe the taste of milk strikes you as bland, nothing you'd ask for by itself except once in a great while. I still can't imagine a person decrying the namby-pambiness of milk on these grounds. There's a Rik From the Young Ones vibe to it - crying "boring!" at anything that doesn't outright slap you in the face.

The Bats have this particular gift for a wistful melody that I've always liked a lot, though I haven't listened in quite some time.

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 7 November 2005 00:17 (twenty years ago)

Again, I'm more intrigued than upset about NZ people slagging on the Bats, Chris Knox, or what have you.. I just think it's really annoying when these NZ people attack me for liking them, or use it as a pedestal with which to insult the artist I'm stating I enjoy, which is supremely lame in any context.

― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Monday, 7 November 2005 00:47 (twenty years ago)

I find the Bats (and other 80s stalwarts like Chris Knox) quite dull, and having grown up in Christchurch anything that reminds me of that cold boring city is not really very endearing. They have a sound of thoroughly kiwi mediocrity about them, and while they have a few great songs I'll always like, there are more exciting bands in NZ which deserve more attention.

Maybe there's no reason to it, that's just how I feel about them, I would never say my opinion is representative of any rejection of "the mid-to-late 80s FN roster". They seem pretty well established as iconic "world famous in new zealand" types that I've never actually heard anyone listening to.

― Laney (Laneyje), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:02 (twenty years ago)

ahh that's common with crosscultural exchanges though:
FOREIGNER: [a native food] is really delicious!
NATIVE: It's fuckin' piss, everybody here hates it
FOREIGNER: But I thought it was the #1 product in the country!
NATIVE: Yeah but only foreigners eat it

xpost - the abover is responding 2 tha iDonut

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:04 (twenty years ago)

well, subtract the "FOREIGNER: But I thought it was the #1 product in the country!" line, and you're right on. I always knew Flying Nun wasn't the most popular group of artists in New Zealand.. even in the 80s.

Also, I think it's a bit less crass to insult a product than to insult an artist. But now I'm getting to the splitting hairs part, admittedly.

― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:12 (twenty years ago)

(x-post x2) more "world famous OUTSIDE new zealand" - world famous in NZ = thee exponents, shihad, dave fvcking dobbyn &c.

― etc, Monday, 7 November 2005 02:16 (twenty years ago)

for the record, I don't HATE the bats, they just . . . pass me by (apart from "north by north"). I'd rather listen to NZ music to either side of the fence, the be perfectly honest - k-fantastic new wave ridiculousness like mi-sex or the body electric; or the more droning/experimental likes of marie & the atom or garbage & the flowers.

young david kilgour is k-fvcking-hott, his brother ain't so bad, but bob scott has always been a minger.

― etc, Monday, 7 November 2005 02:26 (twenty years ago)

shona laing!!!1

― john p. irrelevant (electricsound), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:27 (twenty years ago)

hey br1an, do you like the headless chickens?

― etc is glad he's not a kennedy, Monday, 7 November 2005 02:29 (twenty years ago)

haha joining the FN roster in being more well known outside of the country than inside . . . EVERMORE.

― etc, Monday, 7 November 2005 02:30 (twenty years ago)

my ears the earplugs do nothing!!

― john p. irrelevant (electricsound), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:32 (twenty years ago)

evermore were nominated for plenty arias

― john p. irrelevant (electricsound), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:32 (twenty years ago)

So....Flying Nun bands were catering to tourists? That's funny, since most of those artists took several years to catch on in the states. This thing of comparing music to food is very strange...and I don't remember anyone thinking the bands were huge in NZ, any more than indie bands in the states were - liner notes and interviews indicated they weren't, and anyone can look at charts.

― duke of marlboro (mickeygraft), Monday, 7 November 2005 03:34 (twenty years ago)

I think some people got the wrong idea from reading US indie press or something. I guess the indie people should have just stuck to 'their own kind'.

― duke of marlboro (mickeygraft), Monday, 7 November 2005 03:35 (twenty years ago)

Has anyone, like, noticed that the US is like fucking huge so of course any little indie band would be more well-known?

― duke of marlboro (mickeygraft), Monday, 7 November 2005 03:36 (twenty years ago)

what points are you addressing with your little rants?

― john p. irrelevant (electricsound), Monday, 7 November 2005 03:38 (twenty years ago)

C: Daddy's Highway, Fear of God, Silverbeet

Haven't heard the new one yet.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Monday, 7 November 2005 03:49 (twenty years ago)

Ah lovely Christchurch

― Good Dog (Good Dog), Monday, 7 November 2005 11:47 (twenty years ago)

And those whose who say that this stuff doesn't matter - that it's "good music" - is to act as if music exists in a vacuum. No, one does not listen to first-wave UK punk without thinking of 1977 London. And one shouldn't listen to the Bats without thinking of 1989 South Island: woollen socks, boredom, a a band whose best chorus goes : "it doesn't look good / I'm feeling like a block of wood."

-- paulhw (pppso...), November 6th, 2005 11:51 PM. (paulhw) (later)

What a load of bollocks.

Apart from the bit about Block of Wood being their best song, it probably is my favourite.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Monday, 7 November 2005 12:42 (twenty years ago)

Jim I meant I've met many many people who like the Bats and bands like the Bats and they're miserable little fucks and they SADDEN MY ASS (YES YES NOT ALL OF THEM MANY ARE STUDLY STUDS), and Donut a better query really would've been: how much do you like the Wedding Present? Also as brought up many times, the idea of separating the Bats from Nz/Chch in the 80s blah is a funny one. Oh and I'm not rejecting shit, I love a lot of FN, it's just a good 75% of it was fucking shit. I am twenty-seven. I wasn't posing that as a refutation (the Bats as I've suggested could've indeed been formed in England, in fact they were! Ask D Gedge!).

― Schwip Schwap (schwip schwap), Monday, 7 November 2005 15:46 (twenty years ago)

Superchunk, man.

― Schwip Schwap (schwip schwap), Monday, 7 November 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

What a fascinating thread. I would have figured these guys were, like, the least controversial band on earth or something! Anyway..I figured out that the '90s album that bored me after I bought a used copy of it a couple years ago was *Fear of God* Still don't know what the early EP I liked was called, since I can't find photos on line of the covers of any of those early EPs to jog my memory. As I recall, the cover was blue. And like I said, parts of it reminded me of Eno (when he used to have songs), though maybe that was just the guitars.

― xhuxk, Monday, 7 November 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

I definitely do prefer Mi-Sex, though. And I have also enjoyed certain records I heard before by the Verlaines, 3Ds, Look Blue Go Purple, and a couple other bands with kiwis in them, not to mention that 7-inch Xpressway Records sampler from a zillion years ago that had the Dead C on it and other people whose names slip my mind. My favorite New Zealand album ever: *How Bizarre* by OMC, no contest.

― xhuxk, Monday, 7 November 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

Why I oughta

― Schwip Schwap (schwip schwap), Monday, 7 November 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

I enjoy certain American music too. I have records By Leadbelly, Donna Summer, Miles Davis, Johnny Thunders, Blake Baxter, and a have a number of other records with Americans playing on them, too. But my favorite record from America ever is definitely Rumours by Fleetwood Mac. It's a classic.

― Good Dog (Good Dog), Monday, 7 November 2005 17:13 (twenty years ago)

I don't fly the flag for all Flying Nun bands, even the older stuff... I have the "In Love With These Times" video tape, and do plan to get the two DVDs which collect these videos but unfortunately put on a lot of more recent boring Flying Nun stuff like Superette or Garageland or what have you...

So what's the deal with the Wedding Present/Bats thing, and why should it matter as far as one liking/disliking their music? I don't see the Bats as a Wedding Present rip-off by any means, if that's what you were aiming for.

― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Monday, 7 November 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

That said, The Strokes completely stole the Garageland singer's voice, through and through (for better or worse.)

― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Monday, 7 November 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

Actually, some of Fleetwood Mac were British (and I always thought Mi-Sex were Australians. Oh well. You learn something new every day!)

― xhuxk, Monday, 7 November 2005 17:47 (twenty years ago)

BUTT WOT OV SPLITT ENZZ??!!!

― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Monday, 7 November 2005 17:50 (twenty years ago)

I liked Garageland's *Do What You Want* when I heard it a few years ago, too! It was pretty! But I got it mixed up with lots of other pretty records like Metropolitan's *Down For You Is Up* and, um, some other ones, and it sadly did not stay in my collection for long.

― xhuxk, Monday, 7 November 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

I remember years ago when NZ music quotas came in for radio and TV the media kicked up a big stink and The Bats came up as THE iconic name of a local band which was "great of course" but would make people "turn off the radio" or "was made for love not money" and they "didn't care about success", etc. In short: in NZ "The Bats" used to be a byword for "indie". Thus the defensiveness in this thread?

I heard the Bats on National Radio yesterday.

― Good Dog (Good Dog), Monday, 7 November 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

i never understood the anemic, conservative opinion people have of christchurch - its just like any mid-level city in the world!

― chris andrews (fraew), Monday, 7 November 2005 21:52 (twenty years ago)

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:3d_uw3YhduMJ:www.peterellis.org.nz/index_files/image002.jpg

― Good Dog (Good Dog), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

Chuck, the reason the Bats remind you of Eno is a combination of Robert Scott's just-like-Eno voice and the sort of VU-inspired jangle heard on Eno songs such as "Big Day" (from Manzanera's "Diamond Head" album and later covered by the Feelies spin-off Yung Wu). Minus Eno's playful anarchy, of course.

I think the new album is great, and perfect for clearing my mind and relaxing. Like a warm blanket indeed.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 03:52 (twenty years ago)

four months pass...

Have tickets to see them in a week, not sure what to expect - I'm excited though. Caught their video for 'Made Up In Blue' last night and loved it. At the same time I've been listening to Compilitely a ton, after not hearing it for ages, and love all the songs as much as I did when I first heard them. I was surprised to learn that the line-up has never changed in 20+ years. Too bad Malcolm Grant can't drag Bill Direen along and have the Bilders open.

― TRG (TRG), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 17:20 (twenty years ago)

They're playing SXSW.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 17:32 (twenty years ago)

three years pass...

robert scott has some new tracks up, including some co-written, weirdly, with adalita from magic dirt

http://www.myspace.com/robertscottx

― pale spector (electricsound), Thursday, 16 April 2009 06:28 (seventeen years ago)

one month passes...

this new album is really good!

― is it ok to oscarbait 'million dollar baby'? (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 2 June 2009 03:20 (seventeen years ago)

I understand why people dismiss the Bats as NZ milquetoast indie. Their sound is generic jangle pop, not nearly as interesting as some other Flying Nun Bands. However, I do love the first two EPs; Bats by Night and Here Is Music by the Fireside because they sound more off and askew. Maybe that's attributable to Alastair Galbraith's violin work which pushes the music into more drone and less jangle. The only song on "Daddy's Highway" that recaptures that sound is "North By North." The rest of the album is not nearly as strong.

I'd be interested to hear which FN bands Paul likes, if any.

― leavethecapital, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 22:44 (seventeen years ago)

Yeah, I like quite a lot. The idea of the Bats still leaves me feeling like I'm drying my pajama bottoms by a two-bar heater in a boring wintry smoggy Chch smog suburb, but stuff I adore (and listen to a lot) includes:

Bailter Space - all albums, but Thermos and Vortura-era especially. Robot World is also great.
Verlaines - from Hallelujah through to Way out where. Five of my most cherished albums right there. Is their new stuff any good?
Chills - a little bit. Parts of Brave Words and Kaleidoscope World are terrific, but parts veer into Bats / Abel Tasmans / Look Blue Go Purple type awfulness.
Straitjacket Fits - Hail. The rest is a bit shit. Shayne Carter was never as verge-of-world-domination as the NZ press liked to suggest, but he was OK. Shit like Cat inna can was bad.
3Ds - all their stuff is so much fun.
Some Skeptics. Some Gordons. Some Tall Dwarfs, but getting past Chris Knox's dickish personality is hard. Yeah actually he's awful.

So Bailter Space, Verlaines. Also a band called This will kill that, but they weren't FN.

I didn't keep up much after I left NZ in 1996...it seems that they moved more towards a Garageland / American-Australian indie direction by the mid 90s?

― paulhw, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 23:18 (seventeen years ago)

Oh yeah meant to add that The Clean's "Compilation" is probably 2nd only to Buzzcock's "Going Steady" as the most essential band comp ever. For some reason I never bothered with their albums and eps, and Kilgour's stuff is boring as hell.

― paulhw, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 23:20 (seventeen years ago)

and Kilgour's stuff is boring as hell

this is preposterous. i'd say most of the three members' best work has been done outside of the clean, which i suppose is more a function of comparable volume. 'here come the cars' is one of the most classic records ever.

― keythkeythkeyth, Wednesday, 3 June 2009 00:46 (seventeen years ago)

yeah Kilgour's solo records (at least the ones I've heard) are actually brilliant, in a low key way.

― tylerw, Wednesday, 3 June 2009 00:52 (seventeen years ago)

and Kilgour's stuff is boring as hell.

Yeah, a really stupid comment. I'd reckon Here Come The Cars to be one of the top 5 all-time classic rock albums to have never been released in America. It's a nearly perfect record, sublime in every way. It's got a little bit of that low-key charm that Love's Forever Changes does, in that it seems pretty mellow at first, but really gets under your skin until you just imagine it being any other way. Most of the rest of his albums are pretty good, but the Ajax one is utterly disposable, aside from a moment or two.

― deedeedeextrovert, Wednesday, 3 June 2009 01:04 (seventeen years ago)

Skipping 109 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Had no idea about the Sundae Painters, thanks!

― JoeStork, Thursday, 14 November 2024 20:15 (one year ago)

10 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2USP0kwiJw

― Evan, Thursday, 14 November 2024 21:15 (one year ago)

eight months pass...

New album, new single!

https://thebats.bandcamp.com/album/corner-coming-up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ9wkSsk9Nk

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 July 2025 20:46 (ten months ago)

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