Guys, if you didn't like this doc that much, you should at least continue on the Memphis vibe and watch Respect Yourself: The Stax Records Story.
― Wild Mountain Armagideon Thyme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 13 January 2014 16:18 (ten years ago) link
yeah need to watch that -- is it out on DVD yet? I actually just picked up Robert Gordon's new Stax book (also called Respect Yourself) from the library, but haven't started it yet. looks good though, gordon certainly is the man for the job.
― tylerw, Monday, 13 January 2014 16:20 (ten years ago) link
Hah yeah it was really cool/strange. Gonna check out that Aldredge record. She was pretty damn endearing during the tribute. Kept wondering if the kid was A. Chilton's son, is there a possibility?
― grandavis, Monday, 13 January 2014 16:20 (ten years ago) link
I got the DVD of that at least five years ago. Have the Robert Gordon book too, haven't it read it yet. Feel like Rob Bowman's Soulsville, USA is already the definitive book, which Gordon himself kind of acknowledges.
― Wild Mountain Armagideon Thyme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 13 January 2014 16:23 (ten years ago) link
Stax doc is aces, and a lot more informative about their business clusterfucks than I expected it would be.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 13 January 2014 16:27 (ten years ago) link
The only thing they left out of that doc was Al Jackson's horrific death.
― Wild Mountain Armagideon Thyme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 13 January 2014 16:30 (ten years ago) link
a truly great music doc is the Cannibal Corpse one from a couple years back, but for the most part, if the band's canonical, it feels like there is for sure a template on what people want to see - and I'm assuming this has to do with how, for it to be successful, you have to be speaking to people who don't generally give a shit about music. like, people enjoy music on whatever level, but people who're already music-obsessed would prefer something that really digs deep -- whereas for general audiences, I think there's already a large barrier in place, and it's been decided that this "the incredible true story of how this came to be and what it meant to people down the line" is the template for getting around that barrier. to venture beyond that would be risky, and to take risks you need the assurance that you're not going to be throwing a lot of money down the toilet.
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 13 January 2014 16:38 (ten years ago) link
agree -- making documentaries is not free and takes a lot of time. it's going to have to appeal to a more mainstream audience or risk being that movie that only some people have barely heard of rather than streaming on netflix for the world to see
therefore i am obliged to mention this, which should be streaming somewhere along with the other 3 in the series at some point shortly (but not on netflix)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtSYQAtK6RY
― mambo jumbo (La Lechera), Monday, 13 January 2014 16:44 (ten years ago) link
i wish more music docs would just show loosely edited archival footage, maybe some voiceovers or something, and let us come to our own conclusions about it. like For All Mankind but instead of space, it's music.
― mambo jumbo (La Lechera), Monday, 13 January 2014 16:56 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, like The Kids Are Alright.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 13 January 2014 16:58 (ten years ago) link
i saw the documentary on a boat during ATP new york, and what i remember most is how great it was to hear the music on a nice big loud sound system. it was a great-sounding documentary.
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 13 January 2014 17:01 (ten years ago) link
The same day I watched this I watched the Patty Schemel doc Hits So Hard, which wasn't really well put together from a cinematic point of view, but leaves few stones left unturned.
― Ian from Etobicoke (Phil D.), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:05 (ten years ago) link
i wish more music docs would just show loosely edited archival footage, maybe some voiceovers or something, and let us come to our own conclusions about it
I totally agree w this but unfortunately this just isn't possible for the vast majority of pre-internet music, simply because most bands were not that well-documented on film during their existence
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:09 (ten years ago) link
i know, it's just what i wish -- that there were a super fan weirdo in the audience with a camera who 30 years later is like "hey anyone want to see these tapes?" for every band i like
― mambo jumbo (La Lechera), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:11 (ten years ago) link
hell, even bands i don't likei'd watch basically anything like that
― mambo jumbo (La Lechera), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:12 (ten years ago) link
yeah you never know with some of these bands, seems like there's always random unseen stuff popping up.parts of the dylan/scorsese doc, the parts that use pennebaker's footage of the 66 tour, are like this, no narrator or talking heads, just this cool archival fly on the wall footage. i wish the whole thing was like that. i guess eat the document is out there.
― tylerw, Monday, 13 January 2014 17:15 (ten years ago) link
"charlie is my darling" is a great example of that kind of doc, and it was about eight thousand times better than "crossfire hurricane," the other rolling stones documentary that got cable play last year.
but there is obviously room in the world for many kinds of docs. sometimes you need narration and easy-to-follow stories. sometimes you don't.
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 13 January 2014 17:19 (ten years ago) link
left a bad taste in my mouth when someone in the film called lesa aldredge chilton's "muse" and it just kind of hung there. "muse" is kind of a yucky concept for this day and age.
you know what musician doc was great? the albert ayler one.
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:27 (ten years ago) link
also i'm aware that the bands rediscovering big star in 80s/90s is a huge part of their legacy and indeed how some of us even know about them but that doesn't justify, cinematically, all the boring fucking talking heads in the doc who just say variations on, "this band was great!"
mitch easter is incredibly annoying btw, he uses "like" as a filler word more than any 13-year-old girl.
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:29 (ten years ago) link
sometimes you need narration and easy-to-follow stories. sometimes you don't.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_AYqZddckc(bonus question: fcc, can you tell me what New York New Wave guitar player appears in the above video)
― Wild Mountain Armagideon Thyme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:31 (ten years ago) link
"they were, like, the best, like, BAND, like out there. i mean, you know, they like, you know, like had this like SOUND you know."
xpost
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:34 (ten years ago) link
(xp) haha. and i do not know what nynw gtr player appears in that spot, but i will say that every single dude in it looks like they belong in a bar in bushwick in 2014.
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 13 January 2014 17:35 (ten years ago) link
best part of the doc was the WTF of realizing that TGI Friday's was the center of the party scene in Memphis in the mid-70s
― Karl Malone, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:04 (ten years ago) link
or even just the audio! when i finally started to get into big star i searched everywhere for some sort of concert recording or even just a single song...didn't find anything. tylerw, do you know of one?
― Karl Malone, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:05 (ten years ago) link
(not counting 1993's "Columbia: Live at Missouri University" recording, of course. which is hilarious, btw, because "Missouri University" doesn't exist. such a quintessential missouri to have a big star connection and then that happens)
― Karl Malone, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:07 (ten years ago) link
There was a decent live gig released in 1992 on Rhino, then there were some sketchy boots released in the later 90s.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:12 (ten years ago) link
IIRC the rhino thing is "live on the radio"
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:13 (ten years ago) link
(i mean, that's not the title, but that's what i think it is. live, on the radio.)
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:14 (ten years ago) link
boots of the early 70s period with chris bell, or from one of the other lineups?
― Karl Malone, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:14 (ten years ago) link
Isn't there one if those live on the radio things with Lightman on bass? WLIX or WLIR or something
― Wild Mountain Armagideon Thyme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:15 (ten years ago) link
look for Nobody Can Dance from the late 90s:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=045DkSUKCsQ
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:15 (ten years ago) link
sorry, i should just back in and research it myself.
"Chilton and Stephens recruited bassist John Lightman for a handful of East Coast live dates, including a WLIR radio broadcast later issued as Big Star Live." looks like this was in 74/75, after Hummel left.
― Karl Malone, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:16 (ten years ago) link
uh guys there's a whole live set on the Big Star box
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:17 (ten years ago) link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/content/images/2006/10/19/dmu_head_in_hands_315x420.jpg
― Karl Malone, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:22 (ten years ago) link
http://blog.nola.com/entertainment_impact_music/2009/08/medium_jody%20stephens.jpg
― mambo jumbo (La Lechera), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:23 (ten years ago) link
lol
― Karl Malone, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:25 (ten years ago) link
although i am disappointed in my lack of skills, i am really looking forward to checking out that live disc when i get home!
― Karl Malone, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:26 (ten years ago) link
no live recordings w/ bell that i know of. the live set on the box is super killer, lots of great chilton guitar work, some tunes they don't play anywhere else. sounds as if they're playing to about three people. this bootleg is very nice too, only instance of the band playing "candy says": http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2012/12/14/big-star-cambridge-performing-arts-center-march-31-1974/
― tylerw, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:27 (ten years ago) link
Weren't there only a handful (at most) of shows with Bell?
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:45 (ten years ago) link
yeah, i think probably less than a dozen? the jovanovic book mentions them covering "cinnamon girl" which would be interesting to hear.
― tylerw, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:48 (ten years ago) link
Some of these shows on Youtube. WLIR and Cambridge Performing Arts, at least.
― Wild Mountain Armagideon Thyme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:52 (ten years ago) link
some very good chilton thangs + reunited big star over here too: http://dbs-repercussion.blogspot.com/search/label/Alex%20Chiltonthe 1977 chilton shows are fantastic: http://dbs-repercussion.blogspot.com/2012/03/alex-chilton-rip-live-1977-feat-chris.html
― tylerw, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:59 (ten years ago) link
Big Start got their biggest push from the Replacements, and to a lesser degree, REM.
So weird, Chilton seemed to avoid Big Star songs as a solo artist. Although he played "Motel Blues" on the really good bootlegged Alex Chilton live show (released last year Electricity By Candlelight http://theseconddisc.com/2013/11/06/alex-chilton-jeff-vargon-interview/) and that was a cover he played during the Big Star years (and is on the original Big Star Live album.)
― Pale Smiley Face (dandydonweiner), Monday, 13 January 2014 19:04 (ten years ago) link
he didn't think his big star songs were very good iirc
― tylerw, Monday, 13 January 2014 19:08 (ten years ago) link
got their biggest push from the Replacements
completely not coincidentally, the promo cd comp that ryko put out to hype their 1992 big star reissues was called "a little big star."
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 13 January 2014 19:12 (ten years ago) link
(funny, though, to think there was once a time when getting a push from the replacements meant something.)
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 13 January 2014 19:13 (ten years ago) link
well and another reason that Big Star faded off the map was because their distribution was really hosed by the label issues, and it was exacerbated by a lack of product on CD until Ryko came along. Pretty sure the only way to get a CD of Big Star prior to Ryko was import only (that's how I got mine.)
― Pale Smiley Face (dandydonweiner), Monday, 13 January 2014 19:28 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, that twofer of the first 2 albums on Line (German label) was one of the most valued things I owned back in the olden days.
― channel 9's meaty urologist (WilliamC), Monday, 13 January 2014 19:35 (ten years ago) link
so uh whoever said Bell being gay isn't germane -- if yer making a 110-minute doc about the band, it's relevant. Esp if "You and Your Sister" is written to a boy, and there's anything more than snark to Chilton saying in a late '70s radio interview "The band isn't together because Chris is a homosexual."
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 January 2014 20:48 (ten years ago) link
Didn't say it wasn't germane, said it wasn't germane to the story of the band, unless of course there is significant evidence that Chris wasn't in the band because he was gay. You think that was the case? I've never heard that before nor read about it. Can't remember offhand, but I don't think Bell's sexuality was discussed in that biography or in the 33 1/3 book either.
― Pale Smiley Face (dandydonweiner), Monday, 13 January 2014 21:42 (ten years ago) link