"Baby It's Cold Outside" -- Holiday Song? Rapey?

generally agree with bb above. i don't know this song, don't have a problem with "rapey" unless men are using it (something "the lady doth protest too much" about it) and feel like it's good shorthand for gendered power dynamics because it actually has some leverage in territory that usually doesn't and gets attention, get annoyed when other men get annoyed at "rapey" and huff about "the legal definition of rape" rmde

you know what? dudes getting reactionary and butthurt about this stuff is sooo fucking lame. you all should man up and find something constructive to do with your time.

Oh noes, I am a Cis-Het dude being made to think about rape for the whole sixth time in my life, DEAR GOD MAKE IT STOP. Why don't they ever shut up.

haha exactly

or "this harmless song does not deserve to be destroyed by u politically correct feminists, i'm liberal but we can't go too far this is madness" guess what there's a lot more than your harmless joyful song that can and ought to be talked about i hope you're up for it, if not then just ignore cuz shutting it down with mansputtering is pathetic at best

"man up"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc_F0zP9usU

i think it's more 'trivializing rape to get standup didja ever notice lulz' is not only disgusting but tiresome but have fun daniel tosh, it's xmas

imo a little humor however tired is a legitimate way to try and make inroads with a topic like "this song is kinda disturbing and indicative of this bad thing" especially when your view is the unpopular disenfranchised one with the bigger burden of proof.

daniel tosh, feminist

matt p you must be a big fan of that mastodon t-shirt

rohypnol didn't really come into use until the 1970s. I don't know if there was some other easily available equivalent date rape drug at the time this song was written, fwiw. I think in context the most obvious reading of "what's in this drink" is a playful one. I really, really think the other reading is a stretch. I am going over and over it to see if there is something I'm missing here.

'lol baby it's cold outside is rapey' is kinda the xmas carol version of 'lol my fave xmas movie is die hard'

― balls, Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:05 PM (1 hour ago)

ugh so otm

ppl who think this song is creepy will probably drop dead if they ever hear rod stewart's 'tonight's the night.'

rohypnol didn't really come into use until the 1970s. I don't know if there was some other easily available equivalent date rape drug at the time this song was written, fwiw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Finn_%28drugs%29

Sharing mostly bcz I coincidentally looked this up last night and thought the origin was surprising: "The Mickey Finn is most likely named for the manager and bartender of a Chicago establishment, the Lone Star Saloon and Palm Garden Restaurant, which operated from 1896 to 1903 in the city's South Loop neighborhood on South State Street.[2][3] In December 1903, several Chicago newspapers document that a Michael "Mickey" Finn managed the Lone Star Saloon and was accused of using knockout drops to incapacitate and rob some of his customers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape_drug#Alcohol

it is funny that the original was edgy just a bit of fun humor (that amps up as the song progresses), precisely the kind of thing you would routinely drag out at the end of parties (w/ the added benefit of it being a way to tell yr guests 'alright, time to leave') which is apparently what it was for years for loesser and his wife. first 'public' performance was mae west and rock hudson, i'm wondering how many ppl fully got the joke there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape_drug#Alcohol

― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 1:24 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OIC, the answer to "what's in this drink" is secretly "alcohol" shh

rohypnol didn't really come into use until the 1970s. I don't know if there was some other easily available equivalent date rape drug at the time this song was written, fwiw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Finn_%28drugs%29

Sharing mostly bcz I coincidentally looked this up last night and thought the origin was surprising: "The Mickey Finn is most likely named for the manager and bartender of a Chicago establishment, the Lone Star Saloon and Palm Garden Restaurant, which operated from 1896 to 1903 in the city's South Loop neighborhood on South State Street.[2][3] In December 1903, several Chicago newspapers document that a Michael "Mickey" Finn managed the Lone Star Saloon and was accused of using knockout drops to incapacitate and rob some of his customers."

― even the beatles had a coinstar machine in their living room (Crabbits), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 1:23 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I also googled "slip a mickey" fwiw. I don't think it was commonly used the way roofies are, but I could be wrong?

xp plying a woman with mystery cocktail of unknown strength in order to manipulate her into sleeping with you doesn't strike you as a bit

Also even if so, I think the line pretty clearly comes off in context as her being sly, not "I literally think you may have drugged me"

this is my favorite christmas song. is the ella/louis version for sure the best version ever or are there others that are possibly better?

also, this is not one of those threads where matt p is killing it, unfortunately

like "what's in this drink" is a pretty normal thing to want to know mickey or not!

(how have you never heard this song? i'm a jew and i've heard this song a million times in my life?)

totally ignorant of this song, thanks for the background info balls. it sounds like it's kind of a camp thing? xp

My best friend in hs would always say of creepy guys, "he seems like the kind of guy that would slip you a mickey." Was actually thinking about this last night – when did my mind transition from thinking of date rape drugs as "slipping you a mickey" to "getting roofied"? I decided it was definitely this century.

xp to Hurting

uhh i guess i should listen to it. my bad

i just don't get how it's possible to get ignorant of this song. have u ever heard that obscure jingle bells tune? another pretty popular one.

It's kind of weird that Loesser and his wife sang this at the end of their Christmas party to signify that the guests should start getting ready to leave.

haha I still basically mainly know this from the tom jones versh

idk, maybe i have, but i can't stop hearing "winter song" by don armando's second avenue rumba band in its place.

xp plying a woman with mystery cocktail of unknown strength in order to manipulate her into sleeping with you doesn't strike you as a bit

― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 1:27 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I feel like all this use of words like "manipulate" assumes that a woman in this situation couldn't possibly WANT a man to be a little bit persistent, and given the nature of her "refusals" in that song I think that seems pretty clear. I mean I get that guys often see "she wants me to be persistent" when it isn't there, and I'm all for playing things on the safe side when it comes to that, but you guys do realize that there is such a thing, a common one even, as a woman wanting to play the game of having a guy convince her, right? I understand that that kind of thinking sometimes does indeed lead to date rape, but at the same time I feel like we're getting to the point of denying that that kind of dynamic could and often does exist in a consensual situation.

would love to hear an "antioch rules" version of this.

Jeez, it's not a rape song, it's a foreplay song.

http://persephonemagazine.com/2010/12/listening-while-feminist-in-defense-of-baby-its-cold-outside/

Thanks, kate

yes, thank you

seems like the same superficial lyric-reading seen with the "blurred lines" controversy is characteristic of the opposition to this song. to me at least it seems like "say, what's in that drink?" (probably the most eyebrow-raising line here) isn't an accusation of drugging but rather a metaphor for the guy's charm. which it must be said, isn't all that strong, because it doesn't seem like in the end she explicitly stays. but if trying to get a girl to change her mind about sleeping with you is rapey then i think we're all in trouble

the most troubling part might be the persistence of the guy, but you know, it's a song -- it has to last a few minutes.

like "blurred lines", someone with certain experiences is well within her/his rights to interpret the song less forgivingly, but it's another thing i think to make assumptions about the writer's intentions

this song is a target commercial for zoey deschanel to sell sweaters
Choir's 'cold outside' is much better, is not a holiday song, and is mopey, not rapey, and stiv bators version is good, too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uTMVyhPmE

lol at ppl insisting 'it's not a holiday song, it's a winter song', like you routinely hear this and 'jingle bells' and 'winter wonderland' in february. this shit ain't schubert.

Oh noes, I am a Cis-Het dude being made to think about rape for the whole sixth time in my life, DEAR GOD MAKE IT STOP. Why don't they ever shut up.

― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:47 PM (1 hour ago)

you should try pairing this with your "i suppose now you guys will make this thread turn into a clusterfuck" schtick for full effect pro tip

Anyway, "Santa Baby" is far more ethically grating.

^^^

lol balls

this song is a target commercial for zoey deschanel to sell sweaters

this song existed before zooey deschanel or target

witch doctor wasn't originally an alvin and the chipmunks song, but that's what it is now.

rob delaney ‏@robdelaney 2h

Until it was outlawed in 1986, the “Baby It’s Cold Outside” defense was successfully used in cases involving countless atrocities.

The drink is the excuse. The drink is the shield someone gets to hold up in front of them to protect from criticism. And it’s not just used in these sort of romantic situations. I’ve heard it in many investigation type scenes where the stoolpigeon character is giving up bits of information they’re supposed to be protecting, in screwball comedies where someone is making a fool of themselves, and, yes, in romantic movies where someone is experiencing feelings they are not supposed to have.

I understand the usage that's being described, but I can't think of any examples off the top of my head. Was it actually all that common in old movies?

idk that I would call this song a "carol"

nb i don't actually know what carol means

balls has the most otm post itt

eh, silly that this has become such a thing to have such an ardent take on.

Relitigate