Itunes, Billboard, and the marginalization of black music and black audiences in America

it's not even about novelty songs - it's about 30 second novelty videos where the song is just an aspect. In the late '80s the original "Unchained Melody" was in the Top 20 because radio was playing it a lot, and a shitty re-recording was in the chart as well because people were buying the cassingle. But it didn't make the chart just because people were paying money to see a movie it was in.

this sounds like you could make the same objection to loads of music videos and i think music video plays on MTV in the 90s should've been included in billboard charts if they weren't at the time

honestly they should just get rid of the non-airplay genre-charts if they're just going to be "songs on the hot 100 we've arbitrarily decided are in this genre, basically in the order they can be found on the hot 100"

― da croupier

yeah i get that it's alot more difficult so i can vaguely sympathize w/ billboard's dilemma - they can't just sample targeted record stores for different markets like they used to, there's probably just not enough data there to be meaningful anymore, and breaking down itunes data would be difficult (but not impossible i think) and definitely problematic even if apple did give you access to user demographics and buying patterns. their solution though is just laughably bad. it's also had the bizarre effect of making it nearly impossible to measure actual crossover on the r&b chart.

yeah katharine if you really think mike will is a keystone species w/ the pop chops of babyface feel free to mention the five tracks he produced this year you're mystified didn't crossover to ac, would sincerely like to hear them.

mtv probably should have been incorporated in the same manner as a powerful radio station - and honestly, if the goal is transparent information about the popularity of songs, there probably shouldn't be a chart that arbitrarily blends sales, airplay and now "did someone let the song run on their computer for 30 seconds even if it was just to see a dude fall down" data. but there is, and it's bumming music fans out at the moment, and unless you're on some "YES BUT HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT'S RACIST" kick it's easy to see why and what they can change if they care.

Ir was timba and neptunes you noted for their pop chops, not babyface. Did Timba really reign on AC?

a big reason mtv wasn't included was probably the idea that those assholes had enough power and influence over the charts as it was. today, the music industry is apparently happy to admit it's a subindustry of "the internet" in a way they weren't with television.

Let's imagine a world in which "Home Sweet Home" was #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for three months.

this isn't true is it?

― Mordy , Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:21 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It is. This vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6DmHGYy_xk

caused the song to return to #1 two weeks ago based on streaming.

that is a lol fact for sure tho this was a complaint long before wrecking ball reentered the charts bc of a parody vid. and wrecking ball was not the first song in history to chart bc of a sexy video i'm sure.

Let's imagine a world in which "Home Sweet Home" was #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for three months.

I was debating making the same joke re: "November Rain"

"In the biggest leap on the Hot 100, Estranged has raced from #89 to #1 thanks to some goddamn dolphins."

suspect also that homogenization of pop radio has in addition to reducing diversity also made it more resistant to disturbance? would make sense if the homogenization in radio markets seen after the telecommunications act of 96 is now apparent at a micro level. i know the drain from radio to ipods/spotify/pandora has been a huge factor in the increasing conservatism of playlists. if in fact mike will is the 21st century babyface or if say you have a poll showing that young ppl say their favorite kind of music is hip-hop it would explain why despite the market this trend is able to happen - monopolies don't respond quickly or well to market forces. then if say the industry barometer had some faulty data you could have the trend get even more distorted, the cycle would feed on itself.

It's not just 'a particular statistic,' this is the first time this has happened since Billboard came into existence

I mean 5 years from now it'll either be a statistical aberration or it won't be but right now is also not the time to handwave away that fact

― 乒乓, Wednesday, December 18, 2013 1:54 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"the first time this has happened since Billboard came into existence" is what is called a "statistic". Doesn't mean it's meaningless but it's not the whole picture. Like mordy said above the billboard process is so opaque that any analysis of it would have to be more thorough and profound than reading the EOY list.

yeah mtv wasn't let in cuz radio stations didn't want to know and record labels didn't want mtv to know just how much mtv mattered

yeah homogenization is def a big element.

wrecking ball was not the first song in history to chart bc of a sexy video i'm sure

i know i'm a fool for acknowledging this, but back in the day one couldn't chart simply FROM people seeing a parody of your sexy video. people would have to either purchase the song or radio would have to actually play it.

yes timba and the neptunes crossed over to ac are you fucking kidding me???

and just as "november rain" went to #3 i think "wrecking ball"s success wasn't wholly reliant on its video - it was at #3 and had been around there for weeks before the chatroulette deal. but its silly to pretend this stuff isn't affecting the chart pretty grandly now.

ok well radio youtube actually played it. what's really the difference? it doesn't take more work to listen to a song on the radio than to watch it on youtube

The youtube rule had been so anticlimactic...I was hoping for something like harper valley pta or funkytown making the top 10 again

there was this

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/5793372/bon-jovi-livin-on-a-prayer-hot-100-jeremy-fry-celtics

that seems like a good way to weigh it tbh: 1 youtube listen = radio plays / volume of listeners by time block xxp

back in the day radio playing a parody of yr song meant the parody charted, not the original song also. now they don't have to bother w/ making up new funny preferably food centered lyrics. will agree there should be some sort of logical standard for how much of a song is heard for it to 'count' as a play (obv not thirty seconds unless we're talking gbv), last.fm is able to figure this out i'm very skeptical billboard isn't able to. it just occurred to me that the ppl in charge at billboard are pretty old, at least to be bringing an understanding of the internet in 2013, and may have just thrown their hands in the air and gone 'fuck it, do whatever' for a solution.

I was hoping for something like harper valley pta or funkytown making the top 10 again

earlier on this thread (i think it was this thread) i pointed out that if a speech is commercially released as an mp3, youtube popularity would seem to qualify it for the Top 40 (just as classic audio op-eds like "The Americans" and "Gallant Men" showed up in the '60s-'70s). If Obama's ever feeling too lame duck I hope he does that for kicks.

xping what I wrote here months ago but youtube parodies have taken away the "intentionalness"...you buy what you want to listen to, rafio stations play what their listeners want to listen to, but when a song charts bc it was in the bg of a vid you might as well start adding muzak to the hot 100 too.

Having the actual video count seems reasonable though, or at least more reasonable.

Blount, you're moving the goalposts all over the place.

why don't christmas songs chart on the hot 100 every december?

haha i have long been a proponent that songs heard in grocery stores, drugstores, etc should somehow be factored in but to achieve that it would probably take some level of big brother security state we're at least two, three years away from

musicians are adapting to the new world though. When that "Gone" viral video gave Kanye lemons, he got on a motorcycle with Kim and made lemonade.

ha forgot about the bon jovi thing, still holding out for something more absurd tho

I can see comedians taking advantage of this too

don't forget "harlem shake"

it just occurred to me that the ppl in charge at billboard are pretty old, at least to be bringing an understanding of the internet in 2013

Bill Werde is pretty young iirc!

I can see comedians taking advantage of this too

next time someone like lou reed dies andy samberg or somebody should dance shirtless on youtube to their best jam, get them the chart respect they deserve.

"maybe it was insensitive me to hump that ottoman to 'Dancing Barefoot' but dammit it made #33 for a week! RIP Patti"

i've been amazed we haven't seen a million byron mcgregors bloom. you'd think it'd be so easy to rig the charts w/ ted cruz doing a speech over an instrumental of 'battle hymn of the republic', the same way they've rigged the best seller lists by having think tanks buy crates of charles krauthammer books. or if that wouldn't work cuz fcc regs on giving airtime to politicians just have limbaugh or hannity do some rant w/ musical accompaniment, most of the old novelty hits were created by radio dickheads looking for their big shot anyway.

otm, how soon before a little lightbulb appears over glenn beck

if mj had died this year thriller (the song) would have gone to #1 i'm sure

attn old/sick singers: get your shit on youtube asap

if they counted youtube ads i'm sure "vicious" would be on the top 40 right now

http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Opinion/660-krauthammer-book-cover-.jpg

^^ audiobook #1 on Hot 100

seriously of all the authors that didn't need to put their picture on the cover

I like the legal pad

things that matter: when you hear a fire alarm exit the building. don't assume it's a prank or wait to come to a stopping point. that fire will burn you. take it from me, charles krauthammer.

what's the open book -- the platform for the RNC?

I'm just disappointed that no one has been able to make a viral video out of Bring in the Katz.

OTM

things that matter: when you hear a fire alarm exit the building. don't assume it's a prank or wait to come to a stopping mobpoint. that fire will burn you. take it from me, charles krauthammer.

fwiw though i think the year of macklemore/miley/thicke/justin/eminem happening at the same time as the year of billboard factoring youtube is not unrelated or coincidental, but i think there's a good chance most or all of those records would've dominated the pop landscape this year anyway if billboard hadn't changed anything (like, "blurred lines" got a lot of attention for the video, but it didn't actual jump into the top ten until he performed it on the voice and the itunes sales/radio spins spiked). so i dunno acting like billboard MADE this stuff happen, much less what their intent was, is not really where the discussion should go imo.

also as much as i hate to admit it, drake's crossover popularity is as huge as any number of rappers that routinely had solo #1s a decade ago and i think it's pretty silly that he hasn't had one. i mean it was only five years ago that wayne had "lollipop" at #1. but of course that was the year before gaga and edm started totally changing the 'rhythmic' radio landscape, which is a HUUUUUGE factor in the whole way things have been going.

yeah thanks to sirius whatnot i have no idea what standard radio formats sound like these days

but of course that was the year before gaga and edm started totally changing the 'rhythmic' radio landscape, which is a HUUUUUGE factor in the whole way things have been going.

― some dude, Wednesday, December 18, 2013 8:26 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

bingo. this is one of the big things no one talks about, probably largely because New York doesn't actually HAVE a rhythmic format so most writers dont actually know what it is