Grateful Dead live, Dick's Picks etc - S&D

"Morning Dew" changed character markedly from 1968 to 1972; not necessarily qualitatively, just a change in perspective (went from agitated to reflective). But if you're looking for an epic "Dark Star," the one on Rockin' The Rhein is pretty amazing (and the rest of it isn't too shabby, either).

I'm a broken record on this, but check out the Veneta Fairgrounds 8/27/72 set (recently officially released in the Sunshine Daydream with the movie of that name finally released too). It's the best Dead ever. Even on the first set, the "China Cat Sunflower" hits the groove you're seeking. Then from "Playing in the Band" to "Sing Me Back Home"---nearly two hours of music---they ride this groove. it's the best.

Ahh! My choice this morning at the bookstore was between the Fillmore East and the Veneta set. I went with the Fillmore East set because it was the better buy (four discs $35, as opposed to the Veneta set which was three discs at $40). I'll start saving my milk money back up and get the Veneta set soon. The packaging alone is very enticing on that one!

Anybody fairly well-versed in the Dead able to recommend a live set that focuses more on this side of the band?

'72 Cleveland Dark Star, just so perfect: https://archive.org/details/gd72-10-28.sbd.cotsman.20301.sbeok.shnf

Veneta set is 3 disks plus the dvd of the movie and the movie is dope, much naked hippie

THe only disappointment with the Sunshine Daydream Veneta set is the absence of a booklet on the more widespread version. That's probably because the deluxe limited edition thing came with a substantial book, but still I'd've thought they could have included something with background etc written in it.
The tracklisting is only printed on the back of the trays.
But it is a great set.

I was thinking 74 or 73 might have some more drifty stuff. It's when they were doing rock as jazz in something of a Bitches Brew style but the bass may be too bubbly to allow it to be really ambient. Really like those 2 years in places anyway, not very big on the added horns on '73 though. But I guess taht was pretty short-lived anyway.

Second or third the Venta set - all time top ten Dead show, and the newly released version sounds GREAT

I also second Rockin' the Rhein, which is the Dead at their Sonic Youth-iest

Austin, you have Europe 72, right?

Austin, you have Europe 72, right?

And Volume 2, yes. Great 'Dark Star' on that one. 'Loser' too!

veneta is so good, i love almost any version of "bird song" but that one is insane. ditto "dark star." garcia turning rays of sun into pure sound. did any of y'all get that acoustic 1970 show they put out for record store day?

Also, John Oswald's Grayfolded to thread. Do you know that one?

Seconding this.

did any of y'all get that acoustic 1970 show they put out for record store day?

I've become so bitter towards RSD that I wasn't even aware it.

But we've already discussed that elsewhere.

For all-acoustic GD, all I know thus far is Reckoning (the expanded two disc set) and yeah: to fall back on simpler terms, it's hella good.

Listening to disc 3 of Rockin' The Rhein right now, super jazzy 40 minute "dark star". dudes are freakin out.

Yeah, Godchaux's the hero of that one.

re the question that revived this, would suggest Dick's Picks 4.

My guess is that Sunshine Daydream will be the centerpiece of a future Dead box -- it is great!

― Mark, Saturday, February 5, 2011 9:26 PM

Called it.

Great AUD recording right here, download it:

https://archive.org/details/gd1971-08-06.fob-SonyECM22p.miller.88816.sbeok.flac16

Mountain Bus' lp Sundance should appeal to people into the early Dead. Version have has several live tracks on it.
But Hexahedron the long lp closing instrumental is the bees knees.

Yeah, that Mountain Bus LP is great - and they were from, like, Philly or something, right? Definitely not SF.

RSD acoustic Dead release (not 'officially' a Dead show, as it was billed as Mickey & the Heartbeats with Bobby Ace and His Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck) is worth getting for the solo Pigpen jams, but the fidelity on the whole thing is pretty lousy, even for an archival recording. More cash grab than must-have, I think. I second DP8 if you want acoustic Dead.

yeah I just wish they'd done more acoustically in the early 80s - that Harpur set is really good, but Reckoning is just amazing.

Fans of Jerry at his stoniest and sleepiest should track down a JGB boot from 1976 called Don't Let Go - just incredibly beautiful and a nice antidote to some of the cornier Keystone boots (which I have never really taken to). Also features probably some of the best Keith playing before he started his descent into, you know, not being conscious onstage.

One day I will write an article about how underrated Keith is; he's become something of my personal crusade. It's almost criminal how ignored he is. Sunshine Daydream and The Grateful Dead Movie are perfect examples: the fucking roadies get, like, four times the amount of screen time! Every time the camera would get close to his piano, it would cut to something else. I get that he wasn't Mr Personality, but dude was probably the third best overall player that band ever had (after Jerry and Phil, and I say this as a notorious Bobby apologist). Even his lone songwriting credit, "Let Me Sing Your Blues Away" is a great and underrated song in the Dead canon; it's like Little Feat does Canned Heat!

haha, yeah, i wonder what the story with the lack of keith godchaux footage in those movies is, it's kind of hilarious in sunshine daydream. he can definitely be a great player.
here's another reallllly good acoustic dead show i discovered this year on the archive, from 1970: https://archive.org/details/gd70-08-05.sbd.jupile.17271.sbeok.shnf
http://25.media.tumblr.com/5f792089c81f51726767a8e6d604c9a7/tumblr_mpslhqrIKo1qzy30io1_500.jpg

Man I love it when they did "Dark Hollow" that year.

austin, i don't know if you have "two from the vault," but it has incredible versions of both "dark star" and "morning dew." easily my favorite live dead album, possibly my favorite dead album from my favorite dead era. another obvious live album with a spectacular "dark star" is "live dead" from 1969. tbh for me the dark stars all fell in quality and dynamism after '68-'69.

I do not have Two From the Vault, but I do have Live/Dead. The 'Dark Star/St. Stephen' on L/D is indeed very mighty.

TFtV looks to be very enticing after some research.

It was my gateway into the Dead and will probably always be my favorite.

THe Eleven on Live Dead is very tasty as is the other one on the Fillmore 3cd.
But Two From The Vault is from their '68 peak month August. I think all the live sets I've heard from that month have been quite stunning. It's also the source of the extra material on the Golden Road version of Anthem Of The Sun, but I have some other stuff from then too.
Seemed to be really hot months for most of those first few years May 70, not sure when in 69, might be February though which is that Fillmore run.

i find it pretty hard to go wrong 68-72, and these days 73-75 is sounding pretty great too.

Yeah ditto what Tyler says. I especially find 68-72 endlessly compelling, just a great run from a band.

I know it's cliche as hell to say so in regards to the Dead, but it's just astonishing how much better the live performances of most of the tunes are in comparison their studio counterparts.

I mean, I used to hate 'Uncle John's Band', but that seems like it was because I'd never heard a live rendition before.

Those harmonies! The Garcia/Weir live vocal harmonies have to be some of the most underrated of all time. The version of 'UJ'sB' on that Fillmore East set I just picked is just magnificent in that regard.

i'm generally on board with the notion that live is better, but not for workingman's dead or american beauty. even for the others, if i prefer live i still like some studio dead quite a whole lot

Has anyone else heard Dick's Picks #16 (11/8/69)? I'm curious if late '69 is considered crapulent, or if this is just an off night. It does have my favorite "Feedback" ever, but the rest, wow, the songs are barely holding together, and not in a fun way.

Dick's Picks 16 is a weird one. Some of the best noise jams the Dead ever laid down but HOLY SHIT I can't find the stop button fast enough once the encore cover of "Hey Jude" starts up.

I don't think "Hey Jude" is on that; it's on another Fillmore East dealie (not a Pick of Dick's). And yeah, it's horrendous.

oh my bad

the dead consistently did terrible beatles covers all through the years

Yeah, doing covers of songs where the focus is on the singing wasn't the best strategy for a band whose vocals were an afterthought.

the last time I saw them they opened with "rain" and it was so bad that i had wiped it from my memory until i finally listened to a tape the show this summer.

Do you think they thought they were good singers? I always wonder that, because you don't wind up with four singers in your band, none of whom can sing, unless it's on purpose.

I just don't think they gave it much thought when they didn't have to. On their studio records (and for the overdubbing on Europe '72), they obviously put a lot of effort into the vocals (relatively speaking).

But live, for one thing, they rarely listened to their live tapes (unless I have that wrong, but I know Phil and Bob have said things along the lines of "ugh, I never listen to those!")

So unless they realized in the moment how weak and off-key the singing was (which, given their drug intake, I'm going to assume they didn't), there wasn't anything that needed to be fixed. You always hear members of the Dead reference good nights and bad nights purely in instrumental terms; I've never read/heard a single interview where one of them said, "Oof, some nights the singing is really off!"

i think i've read quotes from them saying they really wanted to sound like CSN but could never sing things the same way twice.

Do you think they thought they were good singers? I always wonder that, because you don't wind up with four singers in your band, none of whom can sing, unless it's on purpose.

― Humorist (horse) (誤訳侮辱), Monday, December 9, 2013 3:46 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There's no way Phil Lesh thought he could sing. No way.

I just realised with DP16 that I tend to go for the 2nd 2 discs and not the first which I think I would tend to do anyway. Normally go for the jam section instead of the shorter song one when I listen to a dead live set that isn't on disc so maybe that's why I'm not dismissive of it.
I stuck disc 2 on my walkman I think.

I really enjoy DP16, but I've read a few negative reviews of it. My enjoyment of live Dead recordings is tied to how well they perform st stephen->the eleven, and DP16 has a fantastic Eleven. Am I the only one who hears this song as free jazz extrapolation of "Joy to the World"? Probably...

So unless they realized in the moment how weak and off-key the singing was (which, given their drug intake, I'm going to assume they didn't), there wasn't anything that needed to be fixed. You always hear members of the Dead reference good nights and bad nights purely in instrumental terms; I've never read/heard a single interview where one of them said, "Oof, some nights the singing is really off!

Well, if you believe Bob Weir, Donna was fired because she wasn't hitting the notes.

So unless they realized in the moment how weak and off-key the singing was (which, given their drug intake, I'm going to assume they didn't), there wasn't anything that needed to be fixed. You always hear members of the Dead reference good nights and bad nights purely in instrumental terms; I've never read/heard a single interview where one of them said, "Oof, some nights the singing is really off!

Well, if you believe Bob Weir, Donna was fired because she wasn't hitting the notes.

― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:24 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Donna wasn't also an instrumentalist though, which would probably factor in.
& it seems that she couldn't hear herself onstage in the early years, would think that would have been corrected by 1974 though with the wall of sound. But not sure how that worked in terms of individual players being monitored in a way that meant they could hear themselves individually properly.
& she was the one member of the band that actually was a professional singer, having done session work elsewhere.

http://deadessays.blogspot.ie/2009/08/crowded-dead-stage-1967-1975.html
List of live guests that somebody just linked to on Dime.

I caught something off a local college station the other morning which sounded like Etta James fronting the Dead. Turns out that's exactly what it was (with the Tower of Power horns, too). It was fine -- Etta sounded great, the Dead a bit less so, given that it was '82 or '83 -- but at the end she said "Give 'em a big hand! The best rhythm & blues band in the world!" I love the Dead, but...no.

that was on one of the first dead tapes I was ever gifted. was a NYE show iirc.

Well, if you believe Bob Weir, Donna was fired because she wasn't hitting the notes.

^thank god Jerry could play guitar then. I mean the guy couldnt remember the lyrics half the time. Singing with the Dead was beside the point.

The best rhythm & blues band in the world!

AHAHAHA, thank you for my morning laugh! They did about the worst Chuck Berry covers I've ever heard.