Yes. But I'd say the metallic, sickly quality to the basslines takes as much from grime as it does from speed garage (against my own observation above, those metallic sounds really started filtering in during the 2-step era, but they really took over as 2-step transformed to grime.
Something like the vocal mix of "Pulse X" (with great diva performance from Lorraine Cato), combined with house beats, basically = bassline.
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 January 2008 13:44 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeah I hear that about Grime but I always thought those were mutant 2-step bass lines anyway.
― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 20 January 2008 13:45 (sixteen years ago) link
i think speed garage, 2-step, and grime have enough familial connectionss to make it kinda hairsplitting to say this is more liek the first and last than the middle one!
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 20 January 2008 13:48 (sixteen years ago) link
("Pulse X" was the signature tune that heralded the end of 2-step and the beginning of grime - of course there was actually considerable overlap stylistically and chronologically such that it can't be pinned down to a particular tune, but nonetheless...)
x-post yes, definitely, but the way they dominate the tracks feels very grime to me. 2-step tracks were much less likely to be built around the bassline so explicitly - often the big bassline only came in for the instrumental sections. Simplyfing enormously, grime kind of took those sections and made that the whole track. Bassline is structured in a similar way.
xx-post nrq - point taken, but I think your claim was just flat-out wrong (2-step had quite a bit of space in it relative to most other dance music), such that it's worth being pedantic.
And, um, speed garage, 2-step and grime all sound very different to me!
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 January 2008 13:52 (sixteen years ago) link
Would it be pedantic to say "this performer sounds influenced by the new romantics rather than post-punk"?
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 January 2008 13:53 (sixteen years ago) link
the most distinctive thing about this music for me is not the basslines (this music isn't actually bassiER than Grime, Speed Garage or even a lot of 2 Step altho i know the reason for the term is more because the bassline is more isolated and pivotal here and now), but the girly vocal hooks and subsequent popness, which is where the 2 Step connection makes most sense to me.
not sure i ever heard vocal mix of 'Pulse X' tho!
― blueski, Sunday, 20 January 2008 14:00 (sixteen years ago) link
but you just said "there was actually considerable overlap stylistically and chronologically" and "Simplyfing enormously, grime kind of took those sections [from 2-step] and made that the whole track".
so "very different" -- really?
the immediate association this track brings up for me was 2-step anyway; but it's possible i dislike it for totally different reasons.
-- Tim F, Sunday, January 20, 2008 1:53 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
sonics of new romantics and post-punk were pretty different, despite the lineage. but in a sense it gets more pedantic the more time elapses...
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 20 January 2008 14:00 (sixteen years ago) link
I dunno, I could make the same sort of arguments: "the new romantics took the synth-experiments of the post-punkers and put them in the service of..." etc. etc. How did Simple Minds get from Empires & Dance to New Gold Dream in two years?
Again, the reason I'm standing by my acknowledged hairsplitting is that I think a part of the major shift from speed garage (apart from, like, the shift from 4X4 beats to syncopated beats - a pretty big dif. in my books) is the introduction of space. I'm still curious to know what you're basing your original comment on. Maybe I've misinterpreted what you're talking about here?
Steve I will post the vocal mix of "Pulse X", it's ace.
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 January 2008 14:13 (sixteen years ago) link
yeh i relistened and maybe it isn't about space in 'that way'.* am still baffled as to what's good about the track! and with the choppy vocals, skippy beats, and stabby bits it does still sound 2-steppy to me in lots of ways; obviously it sounds different in other ways, but these things stick out -- but this is beside the point, which is 'is this good?'
*i have to imagine that the track has actual bass cos i listened via youtube so it didn't, and so maybe that's the kind of space i meant, in a southall sense
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 20 January 2008 14:24 (sixteen years ago) link
I should note that I agree the track has a lot of similarities to 2-step! As I said: "In this sense "Heartbroken" is closer to 2-step than most bassline is actually". And even most other bassline is at least tenuously reminiscent of 2-step.
You're probably correct that there are common (or at least similar) reasons for you disliking this and 2-step. Presumably you disliked speed garage as well then? Given 2-step is my favourite single sub-genre of dance i'm unlikely to change your mind, but some of the things I like that haven't been mentioned:
The contrast between the stiff sternness of the opening cello-bass and pizzicato combo over those hyper-straight house percussion (which always slightly ahead of the groove, like it's driving everything forward with a whip crack) and the fluffiness of the high-pitched vocals. If the latter make the record camp, it's "camp" in the traditional sense of taking itself very seriously - Jodie isn't sniggering at herself, and the groove isn't sniggering at her either. With other pop music we might dismiss as excessively camp, the main problem is that the song has a built-in awareness and acknowledgment of its own ridiculousness and/or inconsequentiality.
The superlative squelchiness of the main bassline, which gets higher and higher, until by halfway through it sounds high and trebly itself to match the vocal.
The mournful sweep of the strings in the chorus, which set off a great dirty/classy tension in the track (how good do these strings sound in the breakdown??)
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 January 2008 14:42 (sixteen years ago) link
i wouldn't expect anyone to get something out of this without already appreciating 2 Step, unless they were too young for that (but would still have some awareness)
― blueski, Sunday, 20 January 2008 14:44 (sixteen years ago) link
i like the new T2 possible more than this one. high-pitched vocals seem v common in this scene but don't know if they really dominate, which is good. male-female interplay on 'What's It Gonna Be' also a plus.
― blueski, Sunday, 20 January 2008 14:46 (sixteen years ago) link
Vocal mix of Pulse X: http://www.zshare.net/audio/670407519dd418/
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 January 2008 14:57 (sixteen years ago) link
oh, oh, fashion school
― Tape Store, Sunday, 20 January 2008 22:00 (sixteen years ago) link
btw, mincing a hook, passing it off as the main course and then revealing it as dessert = genius idea
― Tape Store, Sunday, 20 January 2008 22:04 (sixteen years ago) link
Don't really like this track, unfortunately.
― Spencer Chow, Sunday, 20 January 2008 22:06 (sixteen years ago) link
Boo hoo.
― jim, Sunday, 20 January 2008 22:29 (sixteen years ago) link
The cover of "Heartbroken" with a male smooth RnB singer doing the vocal is really great, maybe better than the original. The kind of whiny tone of the female singer reminds of the singing on Latin freestyle 80s tracks, same kind of sound/manner/delivery imho
― Drew Daniel, Sunday, 20 January 2008 22:37 (sixteen years ago) link
xpost, sorry to disappoint you?
Drew, this female vocal is way worse than most of the 80s freestyle stuff (which was mostly GREAT, and often powerful and deep - Liz Torres? come on!), but there were a couple things in the early 90s that were similar - can't remember the titles because I have repressed them (although I remember one song which rhymed "heart" with "heart"). One analogy would be INOJ which is of course way better (maybe not quite as piercing).
― Spencer Chow, Sunday, 20 January 2008 23:21 (sixteen years ago) link
i agree with you drew, it certainly reminds me of the 80s freestyle stuff (i didn't realise until you mentioned it!). and come on now SC, debbie deb was hardly a powerful/deep vocalist was she?
it's the simple cartoonlike feel to the song that brings it to mind, though i don't know any other songs in this genre (is it 4x4? bassline?), could anyone recommend similar bright catchy tracks to check out?
― NI, Wednesday, 23 January 2008 23:31 (sixteen years ago) link
Do you really think that any of Debbie Deb's vocal performances are anywhere near the irritation factor of the "Heartbroken" vocal??
It's odd too, because I loved so much of the helium vocals in earlier garage tracks. This one is just diabolically annoying.
― Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 23 January 2008 23:34 (sixteen years ago) link
it's cos she's flat.
still love it tho; irritating = tenacious, sometimes, magically
― gff, Wednesday, 23 January 2008 23:37 (sixteen years ago) link
"Heartbroken" makes "When I Hear Music" and "Lookout Weekend" sound like Maria Callas.
― Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 23 January 2008 23:39 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm still open to liking this track.
― Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 23 January 2008 23:40 (sixteen years ago) link
have you heard 'What's It Gonna Be' yet? the new T2 has less annoying vocals also.
― blueski, Thursday, 24 January 2008 00:00 (sixteen years ago) link
single of the year, yes!
― Saxby D. Elder, Friday, 25 January 2008 06:49 (sixteen years ago) link
damn this is fucking hot.
― The Brainwasher, Friday, 25 January 2008 07:19 (sixteen years ago) link
okay 5 mins later this is annoying.
― The Brainwasher, Friday, 25 January 2008 07:24 (sixteen years ago) link
Steve, haven't heard it yet, will listen.
― Spencer Chow, Friday, 25 January 2008 09:16 (sixteen years ago) link
I really don't like the vocals on Heartbroken and was worried I wasn't really going to 'get' any of the big bassline singles but the Addictive feat T2 record is astonishingly good.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 January 2008 09:26 (sixteen years ago) link
what a song
― the shaker intro bit the shaker outro in the tail, hard (breastcrawl), Saturday, 21 January 2023 20:51 (one year ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4uy0_ZltXU
― the shaker intro bit the shaker outro in the tail, hard (breastcrawl), Saturday, 21 January 2023 20:55 (one year ago) link
correct
― Kieth Encounter (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 21 January 2023 21:25 (one year ago) link
some of the things we used at my last lab job were labeled T2 so this song always came in my head when i saw them
― dyl, Saturday, 21 January 2023 22:09 (one year ago) link
the personal late-period nostalgia on this one is so strong and evocative and melancholy
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Saturday, 21 January 2023 22:32 (one year ago) link