Lady Gaga - ARTPOP [2012]

yeah, i'm not really suggesting that any of these people ARE the new madonna, just that there's reasons they fit the bill more than gaga (not in the least, in perry and swift's case, commercially)

also, re: her being a cyndi or a madonna, can you more easily see gaga hoofing it for conglomerates in 20 years or winning a Tony for Best Original Score?

Greer, the problem with dealing in perceptions is that you bump into the million-strong ILX minority that has always thought Erotica her best.

I'm aware of the existence of that contagion here.

contingent*, actually nevermind, I was right the first time.

Artpop is more her Bedtime Stories; the attempt at reclamation of public interest and a return to a bit of a safer lane for the popstar, destined to very limited commercial success because it's coming off of an album where a lot of public goodwill was squandered.

"Applause" wasn't "Secret" although "Do What U Want" may prove her "Take a Bow" (sub Kels for Babyface).

part of why i think perry, kesha, minaj, and swift are all more plausible "new madonnas" than gaga (though kesha and minaj are definitely falling behind in that race) is that all of them get closer to madonna's "why are you offended? i'm just being me, having it all" energy, where gaga is more "are you offended yet? please be offended" - the dita thing.
― da croupier, Thursday, November 21, 2013 9:23 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Madonna, for better or worse, toyed with the idea of embodying or being associated with the dangerous Other in a way Swift and Perry never will for fear of alienating their core fanbase aka middle America.

― Greer, vendredi 22 novembre 2013 02:33 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Rihanna is probably the closest to being the "new Madonna". She's had tons of hits. She's seen as some sort of bad girl with a big sexuality. She changes her look a lot. But somehow she's nowhere near having the same cultural impact.

rihanna's a little too moneyball for madonna imo (though she certainly merited being on that shortlist i wrote) - amazing career longevity, but only one multi-platinum album

well, these days having more than one multi-platinum album is basically enough to make you the new MJ. it was funny how Rihanna just reached 10 million albums sold while her singles sales are at least 7 or 8 times that.

I'm not sure what moneyball means, but imo the problem with Rihanna (especially compared to Madonna) is she's not really interesting.

the comparisons to previous eras don't really make much sense for any of this era's pop girls imo. reading through this thread there was a lot of hmm that makes sense if you kinda squint but not really. none of them fit the madonna arc or the cyndi arc exactly, and i don't think any of them really could in this age.

It was always going to be another album about the intersection of art, gender politics, fashion and celebrity but it is strange that someone so adept at curating their visual identity, so heavily embedded in all four spheres and that is either working with or biting from some really heavy hitters in the culture industry has nothing of interest to say about any of it.

this is v otm. and of course there's no obligation for gaga to say anything of interest but the vast chasm between her talk and her walk is more and more apparent.

also neither born this way nor artpop are her erotica, in her fucking dreams

Nobody ever will have another Erotica anymore than any old religion will ever have a new holy text.

^^^^^

Who needs the Bhagavad Gita when we've got Dita?

Col. Sanders couldn't have said it better.

of course no one can fit anyone's arc exactly - how could they? it's in how they're similar AND how they differ that comparing arcs can be interesting and informative (to pop music history nerds of a certain stripe at least). i don't get when people are like "ah but cyndi never popped out of an egg" as if that means gaga's career isn't evolving in a form closer to cyndi's than madonna's.

though yeah, because every person and every life is a unique snowflake, gaga's having more hits (if minor compared to madonna) on album 3.5 than cyndi was at that time. I just bring it up in the context of "this is gaga's erotica," which both accepts her desire to be compared to madonna while also undermining it by suggesting the bloom came off the rose far more quickly.

it'd be tempting to also point out that gaga can't be "the new madonna" when part of madonna's appeal was her relative unprecedentedness, but as I was a wee babe for her first few albums, does anyone a lil older know who cynics were comparing her to during the part of her career where she could have been written off as a prefab pixie?

I don't know if she was compared TO anyone but certainly she suffered initially from invidious comparisons with Cyndi, who had a hand in writing a few songs on the duet and chose covers that Rolling Stone editors loved in their original forms. Maybe David Fricke and Parke Puterbaugh thought she wasn't as smart as Debbie Harry or Chrissie.

yeah i def know the whole critical stance on cyndi vs madonna at the time, which is part of why when people say "katy can't be madonna, she's too stupid, safe and prefab" i think it's worth remembering that's how madonna was seen by critic-types compared to cyndi at least initially (though i too think katy is stupid, safe and prefab compared to even early madonna)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pn0JKmy5-M

This is her The Civil Wars after her Einstein on the Beach, or her Banality after Luxury and Degradation, whereas Kanye just released his Made in Heaven this week.

if this flops maybe she'll go straight to confessions on a dance floor

― da croupier, Thursday, November 21, 2013 9:26 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The sooner the better.

Finally listened to this. First impression was that it's more enjoyable than this thread would have one believe, but certainly underwritten, even moreso than BTW. Lots of hooks that I enjoyed sitting in songs that were otherwise kind of ordinary or even a drag. But I didn't hate it. Will give it a few more spins. Would be bummed if I had to give up the ghost on her completely.

her ama performance was kinda of show-stoppingly great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmhw7sFwhjo

Yeah, that's really good.

right? the transition from goofy JFK/marilyn thing to LADY GAGA IS OVER was surprisingly... poignant

yeah the way they fuck with the arrangement in opposite directions works really well

also i don't think there's anything like a statement in this at all, but in an age of so many racially clueless performances, i feel like this song and its performances have handled that aspect of it well - it's conscious of how it's perceived

i feel like a) gaga really gets kellz b) kellz' brand of ridiculousness brings out gaga's own best kind of ridiculousness c) they should do a lot more work together. like a whole album or a tour. scrap their current solo shit and do this instead

touring together would be cool. i wouldn't clamor for a bunch more collaborative songs, though.

i feel like a) gaga really gets kellz b) kellz' brand of ridiculousness brings out gaga's own best kind of ridiculousness

Yeah. This is why it's the album's high point: even with the deliberately kooky titles the music is too pedestrian to register.

Wow! What a great performance!

yeah the way they fuck with the arrangement in opposite directions works really well

^^^^absolutely this

beware, terry richardson directed the "do what u want" video

Of course he did. Because that dude can't leave the things I like alone.

i feel like a) gaga really gets kellz b) kellz' brand of ridiculousness brings out gaga's own best kind of ridiculousness c) they should do a lot more work together. like a whole album or a tour. scrap their current solo shit and do this instead

― lex pretend, Monday, 25 November 2013 19:19 (Yesterday) Permalink

almost how i feel about Mariah and Miguel

tho not to the same degree OBV

i got that about mariah and terius more, though wouldn't disagree that it's there with miguel too

i'm sorry i think i'm just having a reaction bc i listened to #beautiful three times in a row yesterday whilst smoking cigarettes on a fence and looking at the brooklyn sky and i remembered that comment that woman posted somewhere that someone reposted (was it you?) about how it's about a woman on her last nerve who needed to be fucked against a chainlink fence and you'll never know how good this song is, ever

and yeah, i just had a moment

but if Mimi and thedream came up with a full album of mind-shattering joints like the impossible i wouldn't be mad and i'd probably cancel christmas forever just to listen to it on my own

anyway go on.

http://www.fastcodesign.com/3021250/rockstar-graphic-designers-critique-lady-gagas-artpop-album-cover

Sorry, "rockstar graphic designers" made me break out into hives so I had to close the tab.

I thought "Venus" sounded pretty good live with the Muppets last night. But she really needs to release "Gypsy" as the next single".

yeah as a song, I like "Venus," especially the belting 'goddess of love' section. it has similar strengths and weaknesses to "Applause," though, I'm really glad it was passed over as next single in favor of "Do What U Want." do agree that "Gypsy" is a standout.

i guess she's not such a big fan of some of you

http://i.imgur.com/AJ4BcwF.png

There is something passive aggressive about Gaga's public personae that always turned me off.

yah. this she tweeted at the same time doesn't help

https://twitter.com/ladygaga/status/422134283189243904

talent really doesn't last forever - even the very best often fall off after five/ten years.

wow @ these horrible analogies. i did not realize she was actually this stupid.

Listening to "Tits on the Radio" for the first time in years and thinking this is Gaga's best song.

Occurred to me that I still have not heard this album. Have it, have not heard it. Not sure I have the heart.