Lily Allen - This summers biggest racist?

So here it is: You don’t satirise race.

I disagree with that as a blanket statement but it's certainly applicable here

10 videos that actually pushed feminism forward in 2013 by Aimee Cliff
http://www.dummymag.com/lists/alternative-feminist-videos-to-lily-allen-2013

wow, Q.U.E.E.N. is really fucking great eh

not watching l. allen video

Janelle Monae rules hardcore

you gotta wonder why more people can't do it with intelligence, charm, good music & STILL get mass airplay. idk.

The short, glib answer is that there's no box for that.

intersectional feminism is thankfully becoming more of an acknowledged thing & i guess monae/badu are 2 of its cultural standard-bearers

janelle monae doesn't get mass airplay

lily allen, i would venture to say, is not

in fact janelle monae barely gets any airplay

lol at thread title change

Well I mean she's no Lorde, right.

Kidding. (Sorta.) But I mean the whitewashing of pop radio is something we've discussed on the board, and it affects artists like Monáe disproportionately.

(Also why are so many people neglecting the FOR YOU in that controversial line? That seems directed toward execs/men.)

(that was directed toward the person who said it was 'shitting on other women'—it's not, it's taking to task the idea of what's EXPECTED of women by men)

Hmmmmm

Bad news, everyone. White guy Rich Juzwiak thinks all this outrage is "phony".

beautiful thread title change

Normally I oppose comedy modding but I couldn't really resist this time.

White people really need to stop slapping down criticism of this video. Elle magazine tweeted Lily Allen's response earlier with the line "take that, haters" because of course calling anyone offended a hater is sure to cool things down. If you're a white person sitting at your keyboard about to tell a black person to chillout, it's nbd, then you should maybe think for a minute.

But I just checked out Rich Juzwiak's tweets and he doesn't mention Lily Allen so is that necessarily what he's referring to?

Considering he used the hashtag #fuckyourlilyallenwhining in a tweet cooing about Mariah Carey (which is what he should stick to) prior to his tweets about phony outrage, it's a reasonable assumption to make.

Ha, OK then

like, yeah, there's a conflate of distaste, outrage, indifference, etc, but unless you genuinely believe there's no legitimate reason to find the video gross, you're better off naming names than saying "SOME people are making too much of..." esp if you're a writer who's regularly gone into mild hysterics in a review over something simply being really stupid.

(that was directed toward the person who said it was 'shitting on other women'—it's not, it's taking to task the idea of what's EXPECTED of women by men)

By saying that women who do what's "expected" don't have a brain? Doesn't seem much like targeting the execs when she's going "lol stupid sluts are stupid." Like, the video literally cuts to one of the dancers after that line. It's not ambiguous or subtle.

I'm wary (and weary) of kneejerk outrage myself so I paid close attention to the initial responses and most of the anger came from black women rather than bandwagon-jumpers so I don't think it's anyone's place to call it phony.

Part of me thinks we'd look really stupid if Juzwiak was referring to something else but the guy has been dismissive of shit he had zero stake in before so whatever.

he's had it up to here with people avoiding the real issues in toronto

that is not at all what she's saying, gyac. she's saying that nothing about her matters as long as she isn't seen as sexy by the fucked-up standards of 21st-century pop culture. (are you a dude? you're probably a dude, right.)

that is, in the minds of those looking at women. they want attractive women first, brainy women second. not really sure how this comes as a surprise to anyone, also not really comfortable with men rushing to the defense of women only being looked at through a sexualized lens, which is what a lot of male 'WHY ARE YOU SLUT-SHAMING???'-shaming comes off like.

I don't think you can elide or rationalize the gross racial aspect of this video given that Lily tweeted a picture of her boyfriend's penis dressed up as a golliwog as part of an argument with a black person.

No, I'm a woman, but feel free to continue being wrong.

allen and the dancers have been quite complimentary of each other in response to the furore and the positive reaction from the participants (patronised and perceived as pawns by people on both sides of the argument) is what tends to undermine the accusations of cultural misappropriation and/or unintentional x-ism. seems like the dancers would just agree with what allen and the director have said (which just leads back to 'shrug, hate the game').

Part of personal agency includes accepting that some people are going to think that your choice sucked.

hat is, in the minds of those looking at women. they want attractive women first, brainy women second.

Lily Allen buying into this dichotomy - "I'm not like those sluts, I have a brain" is just making the same argument? Like I have a lot of sympathy for her because I know she has quite significant body image issues, and there was that period where she lost a shitload of weight and got rewarded for it with a Chanel campaign. That still doesn't make that line and the accompanying way it's presented in the video ok.

I don't think you can elide or rationalize the gross racial aspect of this video given that Lily tweeted a picture of her boyfriend's penis dressed up as a golliwog as part of an argument with a black person.

Seriously. She doesn't deserve any benefit of the doubt.

From Julianne Shepherd's Hairpin piece on the video:

"You could counter with, "whatever, it's her video," or say that it is "pure rap-game parody." One of the dancers in the video, Seliza Sebastian, has tweeted that she enjoyed herself and found a friend in Allen. I'm not here to discount Sebastian's experience at all, or the possibility that there's value in her being "in on the joke," but to point out that the images in pop culture go beyond your one-day video shoot, and that they're gonna have implications beyond where you think your headspace is at. "

What else were the dancers going to say? Were they going to speak out against it and jeopardise their chances of future work?

the line is fine when divorced from the context of the video, imo, because it's her standing up for herself against the tide of 'be sexier.' (again, the 'for you' is the essential part of the lyric that seems to be deliberately overlooked by so many—who is 'you'? surely it's important.) there's something to be said for the way women in post-millennial pop culture seem to fundamentally change once they reach the 'late 20s' threshold, too; it's like when they become aware of the fact that something more than their talent was what made them alluring to both executives and mass culture. britney is obviously the most extreme example (she turned 26 in 2007, the year of her public meltdown) but there are others; this is why i am waiting on all these exhortations about miley's savvy, honestly.

also, i'm sorry i misgendered you, gyac.

you don't think that's patronising them? xp

The dancers are cool with it, great we can now ignore all the black women who find it offensive

Standing up for yourself doesn't mean you have to throw other women under the bus, or use their bodies to make a point though. I would suggest you read the Ayesha Siddiqi piece linked upthread for a far better analysis of it. Also, thank you (I wasn't offended or anything, but that's cool of you.)

The dancers don't need to feel coerced into cosigning the video in order for the video to be fucked up.

For me, Lily Allen is unambiguously a racist. As such, I'm going to look askance at any interaction she has with race because I have zero faith that she will navigate it in a manner I will agree with. This video bears that out for me, particularly when in response she invokes both "it's just a bit of fun" AND completely undercuts defense of criticism of how she's showing off the bodies of the dancers as compared to herself with "well I have cellulite! no one wants to see that".

I mean, maybe this whole thing is an extended media prank where she is intentionally setting herself up as the caricature of an unthinking privileged racist for satirical purposes but that seems like a stretch.

xp It's not unheard of for women to speak out if they've felt uncomfortable in a movie or video. It's a bit of a leap to assume that they're secretly unhappy but too scared to say so. I'm sure they were cool with it but it doesn't mean the viewer can't be uncomfortable with the imagery. It's like if you're anti-porn, you're not going to change your mind because certain porn stars are happy and fulfilled.

xxp How does slagging off someone who's paid you for your work in a public forum usually turns out? If one of them came out and said "Actually, I thought it came out horribly" or whatever, they'd be called ungrateful and of biting the hand that feeds. I fully acknowledge they may have no problem with it - I'm just saying that for the obvious reasons, it's not like we would know if they had problems with the finished product!

I'm very familiar with Ayesha's work. But I think saying that you're throwing women under the bus by saying "no, I don't want to be sexy, I have other things to offer" really diminishes the locus of possible critique—not just by Lily Allen, but by any woman who might not fit into ideals of what is "hot."

(And I am definitely speaking as a woman who has opted out of a lot of shit because she is more than aware that she falls outside the paradigm.)

I'm trying to divorce the lyrics (which I think are still worth discussion) from the imagery (which is really thoughtless). It's "Blurred Lines" all over again! Help!

just curious, as I've only seen the picture, how do we know that's her boyfriend's penis? (and did ...did she dress it up especially for yungrapunxel beef?)

It's a bit of a leap to assume that they're secretly unhappy but too scared to say so.

multiple xps - I see your point, but I disagree, because this isn't the first time she has lashed out at more "conventionally attractive" women partly due to her own issues, when really the ludicrous standards women are expected to live up to are to blame. But that doesn't get you quite as much attention as mocking Cheryl Tweedy. (Remember that whole thing?)

Cheryl said: “I’m really flattered Lily’s written a track about me. But I don’t know why she sings about wanting to be as pretty as me as she looks stunning. I’d like to look like her. It’s about time we had a really cool British girl out there on the music scene.”

But Lily has pointed out that Cheryl missed the point: “I don’t want to look like Cheryl Tweedy! It’s tongue in cheek, it’s meant to be ironic.”

“I don’t have anything against her as a human being but I think the portrayal of her being the right thing for kids to look up to is wrong.

“It was a joke that not many people got. Of course nobody really wants to look like Cheryl, they just think they do.”

I'm surprised that in her article Ayesha hails the Pour It Up video as some kind of feminist breakthrough just because there are no men in it. It's still full of ass and crotch shots and you never even see the strippers' faces, only Rihanna's. To say that it "priotizes the female gaze" suggests a low bar. I'm sure a lot of the 67 million YouTube views came from men who are happy watching faceless strippers.