The thread for Portishead "Third"

that All Mine song tho, is still pretty classic

I don't think Portishead is a bad album at all either. Just significantly worse than the other two. It gets a little samey on side two.

definitely samey

^great album title

For Oasis records nos. 2 - 28 or whatever they're up to now.

I can see the argument for saying that "Machine Gun" has no verse-chorus structure if you completely block out the vocals, considering that the music track remains static until after the vocals drop out. There is a very definite verse-chorus structure to the vocal line, though; even if you ignore the pattern of the melodic line and the repitition of the text, you can break it down as "the verse is the part where Beth is singing in isolation and the chorus is Beth singing over a track of herself going 'oooh'". Additionally, the synth coda at the end actually sketches in the chord harmonies implied by the chorus, so the whole song is intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus, which is a pretty standard pop song construction.

Portishead>Dummy>Third

The juxtaposition of the drums and the achingly pretty, almost folksy melody in Machine Gun is what makes it work so brilliantly. I don't really get people saying it doesn't have a tune.

my initial response is one of frustration that this album is getting tagged as "difficult" (whether intended positively or negatively) when it isn't.

I have to disagree here. "Third" is definitely difficult.

I may be wrong but my impression is that some people are mixing up melody with harmony. I think it would be fair to say that there's less harmony in Third. Haven't listened carefully to all of it but I'd say "Machine Gun" for instance has almost no harmony.

...although it definitely has a melody.

There are background vocal harmonies in the chorus.

And the keyboard bit is harmonic, but other than that you're right. And I agree it is a fairly difficult album, though far from the most difficult I've ever heard.

What's difficult about this album? I don't get that at all, and this isn't the only place I've read it.

It's oppressive and quite rough. That turns some people off. It's all relative though, innit.

yah my coworker was thrown by the "aggression" as she called it. i guess that's difficult.

but that's kind of just taste too. i didn't find it especially difficult, which is a very vague descriptor. what does it even mean with regard to listening to something?

Difficult to resist hitting eject button, hurling CD across room

boring =/ difficult

that's the thing it could mean like 50 different things. u could definitely also argue that boring = difficult.

I think some ppl read "difficult" to mean musically/structurally complex or challenging, which really this album isn't. But it does have an opressive, fuckoff, strained mood to it, as chap points out. And that is something some people would find "difficult" - people like my mum would take one listen to this album and go "oh god this sounds so miserable and atonal and what the hell is wrong with her voice?" and not like it one bit.

this album sounds exactly like a portishead album!

er, cuz some people said that it didn't sound like them or something.

you guys got my hopes up. i gotta admit. i was in the mood for something new and state of the art or something. but it just doesn't thrill me. i was expecting it to blow me away sonically, but maybe that's the fault of my u.s. vinyl. i think it's a u.s. copy. it just doesn't sound that great. i did have a fun moment of WTF? confusion when i first put it on and didn't realize that the whole album plays at 45 RPM though!

it sounds like them taking a different approach

i think the instrumentation is really different, the vox are still them.

i mean, the songs are okay, but going by the descriptions on this thread i was hoping it would just astonish me. i remember buying the nice u.k. vinyl version of massive attack's mezzanine and putting that first record on and getting blown out of my chair by how loud and dynamic and metallic and cool it was. and i had kinda forgotten about that band after blue lines. i guess i was hoping for something like that.

yeah, a different approach...sorta. but really? it's about what i would expect in 2008. or even 1998.

yeah i get it. but 98 is coming back, at least fashion wise ;)

and there is nothing difficult about it. it's fairly simple and pleasant enough. whoever said that you won't be hearing this in a coffee house anytime soon is soooooo wrong.

"Difficult" is such a subjective concept anyway. I find weird freak-out stuff like Zappa and Beefheart fairly accessible, whereas there are acknowledge 'classic' acts whose appeal I can't make heads nor tail of, such as The Stone Roses and Bob Dylan. It's not a case of just 'not liking', I can tell something's there but I've just always failed to latch onto it. This is probably a thread in itself, isn't it?

yes

I think there's a legitimate use of the word "difficult" when describing music; a lot of atonal/post-tonal/12-tone music (pick yer favorite variant) is pretty hard to wrap your head around, largely because of the outlandish use of dissonance (I maintain that the only thing on Third that has anything to do with this school of music is "Silence"; everything else is pretty firmly rooted in Western pop/jazz in harmonic and melodic construction). I think the thing that's throwing people with regards to this album is its use of distortion and some of the instrumentation choices, although really the only difference I hear between this album and the previous ones is that it's less "samply" and more "synthy".

In many ways Scott is completely OTM; the only part where he's off is where he says he doesn't like the album. (ha)

in all fairness, i've only played it once. i'll play it again. but, like i said, i was kinda hoping it would leap out at me and grab me by the throat and give me the thrashing i so richly deserve. cuz i really want something new to love. but it didn't do that.

http://www.imeem.com/kendawg06/music/iyHUq7Vo/young_jeezy_blow_it_up_feat_r_kelly_young_dro/

I think the thing that's throwing people with regards to this album is its use of distortion and some of the instrumentation choices

Agree, although I would add the vague term "production" to it. My question is: isn't this is enough to make something sound difficult? You can have the most conventional (Western) melody/harmony and still make something difficult out of it, can't you?

If the melody in "Machine Gun" was "Happy Birthday" and the other instrumentation was left intact, would you play it at your little kid's birthday party?

...actually that would be awesome :)

..."difficulty" is completely subjective though. I could say "this sounds difficult", you could say "it doesn't". We would both be right.

This album is in need of a poll.

parts of this really don't click with me in terms of the melodies. sometimes they're beautifully moody but other times unnecessarily so. like it's trying too much to be disturbing or disturbed, or something.

but i love the beats/textures throughout. awesome.

yeah i dunno now i'm thinking this is generally kind of boring. ::ducks head::

i feel like with all that awesome instrumentation, there could have been some more interesting vocals.

Replace Gibbons with Tracy Thorn and you got a deal.

finally bought this today.

the vinyl looks a little flimsy : ( and possibly warped on one of the discs but no too bad....some major label vinyl they are pressing these days is kinda wack qualitywise.

but anyway got the free download thing and the album is great.

maybe not as "crazy" as this thread has led me to believe but plenty cool, real buzzy in parts...seems like a sorta natural extension of that rustin man thing w/adding more krautrockish type stuff....

almost reminds me of "broken english" a little bit in a way (not that it really sounds like broken english, it just reminds me of broken english in in feel)

"Machine Gun" reminds me a lot of Green Velvet's "Flash"...I also love how the opening track just sprints out of the gate, like they're daring their imitators to try to keep up with them this time...

I like the first half of this album a lot but it really shifts into another gear once it hits "We Carry On"; the last three songs in particular are an ever-increasing feedback loop of awesome.

"Small" suggets a jam session between Low and Iron Butterfly

or maybe more Deep Purple

"We Carry On" suggests a jam session between Thinking Fellers Union Local 282 and Silver Apples (who in turn suggested a jam session between Suicide and Love)...

"forecast", rather then "suggested", as Silver Apples predated Suicide...

i feel like with all that awesome instrumentation, there could have been some more interesting vocals.

For me, this is the only real flaw with this album. Her voice is simply too gentle for the music in several spots, in that those songs would come off better with a more confrontational, aggressive style of singing (i.e. "Threads").

"We Carry On" suggests a jam session between Thinking Fellers Union Local 282 and Silver Apples (who in turn suggested a jam session between Suicide and Love)...

Hmmm. Is that why it's my favorite track right now?