pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

well i mean this more in the freelancer sense of 'at the end of the day it's your decision to work for a rate that's offered or not.' in most other senses, no, doesn't work that way.

Thanks for the clarifications! You were right; asking around did lead to this being debunked pretty quickly.

to anyone directed here via twitter: hi, sorry I said anything, I will shut up now like a good person

hi brandon!

lawl

would think the best comparison would be spin as that's where the dude works now, right? so does spin pay $320 for a review?

Don't drag us into Soderberg's thing

$80 for fifteen to twenty minutes work isn't bad

Whenever I see this thread get bumped I think, I bet Harvell feels bad for titling it thus. He's too nice a guy.

oh i'm sure he's called employers worse

i mean it's hilarious/awesome that jess wrote a lot for PF years after starting this thread but i doubt he's embarrassed or remorseful about it

good thing I'm still embarrassed and remorseful for even posting in it then

hating pitchfork and coming up with reasons why its stupid is a rite of passage for every music fan who likes music that pitchfork covers

s1ocki: I don't know if it's that other sites pay 4x as much, it's that they pay a little more for far shorter pieces. At least that's how I interpreted this tweet from Soderberg earlier today.

https://twitter.com/notrivia/status/392744934408585216

If they pay on time that's pretty big. 80 paid quick & on time beats the hell out of 125 you have to email for weeks and months go get... like perhaps certain beloved national FM radio conglomerates that might theoretically owe someone $650 some of it dating back to august.

oh i totally agree with that

my old paper had comparable rates (80 for a film review iirc) but i got assigned a lot (especially when i was running the section haha) and got paid like clockwork every 2 weeks.

What's up nerds?? So, Katherine's "debunking" of what I said is silly. I don't think comparing the price of say, a blog post for Sound of the City to a Pitchfork review fee is telling of anything. I don't really think those are the same thing. Also, Pitchfork actually has a blog called 'The Pitch' now, so that would probably be a more illustrative comparison. Also, using a Tumblr where anons post pay rates isn't you know, a reliable source (some of those prices she listed from the Tumblr seem accurate, some of them do not). And like, did anyone read what I said and think that The Awl is what I meant by a website on Pitchfork's level? Another way to look Pitchfork's relatively crappy pay: They pay less than an alt-weekly does! That Pitchfork is operating at sub-alt weekly print-in-2013 rates (which in my experience are between 10 cents and 25 cents a word) seems pretty weird to me. That said, I can assure you there are websites that pay 30-50 cents a word and I have written for them and I am 98% sure that when I write for them, I am not being given any kind of special treatment or significantly more money than your average freelancer.

ayyyy lmao

I really don't have it in me to continue this argument two days in a row. I've been on the phone with hospital billing all morning and trust me when I say I just. do. not. have. the personal strength to get into a fight right now.

surely a big chunk of the appeal of writing Pitchfork album reviews is the word count gives you the freedom to waffle on? like I hope no-one is expecting them to start paying as much for an 800-word review as they might expect for eight 100-word ones elsewhere

I will say, because you insisted on bringing it up again and ruining Wednesday as well as Tuesday (and I'm not using this lightly; yesterday was ruined because of this fight), that you are presenting a grossly skewed version of the freelance market that is out of reach for at least half and probably the majority of freelancers out there today. I'm sure people get paid even $2 a word. I am also sure I will never be one of those people. Right now, with the current state of my career, I am lucky anymore if I can get one cent per word. (This isn't a joke -- I was recently turned down for a cent-per-word job, being told I didn't meet their quality standards for writers. In case you were wondering how good of a writer I am.) I don't think it's productive to go after an outlet in the midrange of the scale because they do not pay the rates that many outlets find unsustainable or reserve for celebrity writers.

(For the record, and I'm really not supposed to talk about this but since you seem to think I'm full of shit, I've been paid 50 cents a word exactly once in my career. The commission it was for was later determined by the publication's editors to be grossly overpaid, and I don't think it still exists online anymore.)

this is what's Real-

-p4k freelance rates are low compared to spin where soderbergh writes now but that's a mirage. spin paying inflated rates and bankrupting entire company in process. company was probably fucked anyway.

-spin media (formerly buzz media) now on 3rd ceo since acquisition of spin property. spin mag on 2nd editorial mgmt team in same timeframe (aaron/ganz; aswad/harvilla). Utter disarray. spin performance and product strong but at obscene expense.

-new spin media ceo now maybe a month into his tenure will announce massive layoffs before end of q4, maybe sooner. shareholders want out. expect freelance budgets if not rates to plummet.

-spin media to cut ties with many brands across portfolio, and cut staff across others. for example stero gum, idolotar, punk news, xlr8r, bk vagen, more. freelance rates vary by brand but basically all to be slashed to bone or cut altogether. in house staff to lose jobs too.

-spin edit will remain mostly intact to maintain perception of brand but watch the numbers @ spin media in whole - company will be half size by 2014 or sooner in order to reach profit ability and make sale of entire remaining portfolio attractive to new buyers. current board wants out asap.

-p4k rates for freelance actually very fair. 80 bucks for 500 wd review. compare to vvm or avclub paying single digit rates for content. funnily enough, p4k staffers are the ones getting low rates (rank and file, not top brass). not 1/4 market though, more like 2/3.

-p4k model based on brand not talent. entire team could be replaced tomorrow and readership wouldn't know difference. compare to grantland where every staffer is branded and promoted integral to product (simmons, kloustermann, greenwalt, hyden).

-prediction: p4k to receive lots of resumes + pitches v soon. prob could afford to drop rates actually. haha.

that's all Truth. any insight into ganz-era RS, grantland pay scale, or others greatly appreciated.

-sulf

I was just reading up on some Chicago gang history and

Most Folk gangs represent using the six pointed star Star of David, pitchforks, and identify to the right side (e.g., they wear hats or bandanas turned to the right).[2][3]

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3447350752/51ae00039ec9d88b79319a9cf1434893.png

Is Schreiber a Gangster Disciple? You tell me.

God help us all if anyone visits Grantland for Steve Hyden.

-p4k rates for freelance actually very fair. 80 bucks for 500 wd review. compare to vvm or avclub paying single digit rates for content. funnily enough, p4k staffers are the ones getting low rates (rank and file, not top brass). not 1/4 market though, more like 2/3.

so glad i'm no longer trying to pay my rent by writing music reviews. i don't know how anything can afford to live this way.

aloof affluent types have the best taste in everything imho

ty

I'm sure people get paid even $2 a word. I am also sure I will never be one of those people. Right now, with the current state of my career, I am lucky anymore if I can get one cent per word. (This isn't a joke -- I was recently turned down for a cent-per-word job, being told I didn't meet their quality standards for writers. In case you were wondering how good of a writer I am.)

: (

for someone like katherine who has been killing it on the regular this year this is really saddening

single digit rates for content

jfc

Er, FWIW via 'dashsnowden's post there earlier:

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/227025/spinmedia-will-lay-off-staff-today/

we'll have an all-hands

Although at this point, someone claiming that a media company will announce layoffs is like a psychic claiming that "something bad will happen to you in the future".

"I sense that you've....lost someone close to you....it could be a friend......or a family member.....or a pet"

anyway this sucks and i hope ilx peeps that work there survive the cuts

not pretending to be a psychic just explaining why soderbergh's posting re rates yesterday was fundamentally flawed. if anything p4k have better valuated content (esp relative to brand-building stuff like festivals and interface/tech upgrades) than places like spin which overpay for content chasing traffic to the point of hemorrhage and finally have to cut staff to appease bean counters. traffic no longer = revenue. best revenue opps come from brand-appropriate partnerships, and p4k's brand is stronger than everything else combined.

yes looks like 1st round of cuts went down @ spin media today. pure coincidence, had no idea it was happening today. to return to the original point, this will affect stringers like soderbergh b/c what is not included in pointer posting is the reduction in freelance allowances. i know some spin media people post here maybe they can offer more insight.

finally i dont know anything about the edit/brand-building/revenue model at myspace but that gravy train has to be close to terminal no? any insight is appreciated. grant land too. thanks.

-sulf

In terms of edit re Myspace Gary Suarez has said he's been doing well enough over there as a writer so who knows? Credit to him for figuring out another outlet, at least, even if the brand is fundamentally suspect.

while we're roundtabling on the subject, thought i had heard bad news about msn and christgau earlier in the year, did some googling and damn: http://consequenceofsound.net/2013/09/robert-christgaus-expert-witness-blog-shut-down-on-msn/

all MSN editorial was shut down, not just him

all freelance editorial. (including me)

yeah, the biggest casualty of that was ilxor Adrien's Headbang column.

Happily he ended up at Decibel.

Goddammit this thread has taken a depressing turn. I didn't realise how hard it was out there for US writers.

It's easier from british writers?

Dorian: it's always been the case that the only reason I'm writing at all is due to my full time job. Always.

but the problem with that is that if you are a writer, and what you know how to do is writing, that does not necessarily translate to being employable.

this is what we all get for attacking arena rock. if only there were a zeppelin or two around now the cash would be flowing!

Goddammit this thread has taken a depressing turn. I didn't realise how hard it was out there for US writers.

No pity party for me, but writing is basically all I did from, say, 1998 to a few years ago. Then there was one year where I didn't just lose several gigs, one after the other, but that those gigs themselves fundamentally ceased to exist - the mag folded, or the site went down, or the entire staff was fired and replaced by robots. It became totally untenable to do what I did with kids, because it took every last minute of free time to hustle up work, and even then the pay at the end of the long, arduous, increasingly cutthroat process was pretty low, and seemingly getting lower by the assignment. In my experience, Pitchfork was always equitable and good people and always paid on time and if you were fast, you could make OK money. But more importantly, it existed, which automatically put it on a tier above every other place I wrote for. Because, like:

They pay less than an alt-weekly does!

Is such a weird stance to take, given how many alt weekly rags are folding, or shrinking, or cutting so much in terms of space and staff and budget that there's barely any opportunity for work.

outside of ILX all of the writers i know are either writing for financial publications or maybe technical writing, i.e. product manuals. they were also not the 'best writers' out of the people i knew but the ones who were the best at getting their name out there, getting positions that would look good on the resume, etc.

No pity party for me, but writing is basically all I did from, say, 1998 to a few years ago. Then there was one year where I didn't just lose several gigs, one after the other, but that those gigs themselves fundamentally ceased to exist - the mag folded, or the site went down, or the entire staff was fired and replaced by robots.

This is pretty much my story, too. I started writing in 1996; by the mid-2000s, I had (at my peak) about a dozen outlets I was doing stuff for on a semi-regular basis, plus I had full-time work as a magazine editor. Both the music magazines I edited folded in 2009. I wrote for MSN for two years—I started the Headbang metal blog, then passed it off to Adrien when I took a job with a record label, which is where I am now. At this point, I have two outlets I regularly write for: The Wire and Jazziz. As described above, AMG (which paid below market rate but provided lots of work) and MSN (which paid really fucking well, like $750-1000 for a 1000-word feature well) cut loose all their freelancers; I don't see any way of shaping what I do into something a VVM paper would want to publish; I've pitched Pitchfork a time or two but they've got enough metal writers and don't seem to want to give jazz any real attention; etc., etc.

oh one is a newspaper journalist in a small town in colorado of like, 15,000 people, which is maybe not the best way to spend your 20s but, if there's a paycheck...