HAIM

The main vocals are very rythmic too, with the stuttering and some lines sung with a percussive effect (i.e. "that chu gonna be ok anyway" in The Wire). Probably related to the main singer also being a drummer?

"Surely Haim being more "rough-hewn" would do away with one of their most distinctive and attractive qualities.

― Tim F, Monday, October 7, 2013 5:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"

I disagree strongly. I just watched a few live clips, and one in particular (for "Falling" live at Maida Vale for the BBC) really struck me--there's tension in the performance, drama in the development of the song. It sounds great. The studio version is just... I hate to say it because it will draw anti-rockist backlash, but it's overproduced. That synth climb in the studio version is totally gimmicky and gratuitous. I use "overproduction" not because I object to any studio fuckery or something like that; I love tons of ridiculously over-the-top records. For me, something is overproduced when it's polished to the point of blunting rather than enhancing the band, or when the studio part of the sound stands out so clearly as separate. The live version contains a pretty impressive and well-executed guitar solo, very much in the vein of something Buckingham would have played on Tango. As "produced" as those '80s Mac records are (and forgive me for prolonging what I think is not the best analogy for this band's sound), one of the best things about them is the sound of a superhumanly talented guitarist doing his thing--his voice comes through as a guitarist. If you compare the live version of "Falling" to the studio version, I think the studio version has rubbed out the grain and individuality of her guitar to the point where it's just another "effect". And to me that stinks and it's too bad.

I haven't gone through too many Haim live clips but the ones I've seen have been so far removed from "rough hewn" that I literally have zero context for framing your complaint with them on record.

Like, I feel like you accidentally clicked on a Savages clip and got confused based on the way you're making your argument.

I'm only using "rough-hewn" as a relative term here.

They're definitely more raw and noisy live. It's been a while since I heard a new band whose live and studio sounds are so different. I like both versions tbh.

The Posies were like that earlier in their career. Dear 23 was this Paisley Underground-inflected John Leckie-produced ball of pop, then I saw them live and it was like a RAWK SHOW.

From the live clips I've seen, except for covering "Oh Well", their live show doesn't really seem more "rawk" than what's on the album to me.

It's not more "rawk" at all. I'm not fetishizing specific sounds that signify rock, I'm just asserting that there's more to sink one's teeth into in their live stuff. And I don't think DL is meaning for "raw and noisy live" to mean necessarily "in a rock sense"...

The live stuff is way more rawk. Danielle's vocals in particular are much more rock in the live clips I've watched. More room for extended rock guitar soloing. And obviously lots of studio shimmer missing. I don't quite see how it's even a question.

Their previously discussed all-encompassing emphasis on rhythm works far better in their live stuff as well to me. You hear the way everything rubs against everything else. Again, there's tension. The more I listen to the live stuff, the more beef I have with the studio stuff. I like this band! Find them a new producer for their next record!

Does anyone else think the drum sounds on the studio version are dogshit?

i, uh... really like the drums in this album

the live vocals are way sloppier and it's all guitar/bass/drums without all of the drum machines and stuff on the album. I like the "overproduced" version way better, but it's cool they can play as well as they do live.

yeah, its like a bonus. lord knows there were plenty of 80's studio creations that looked and sounded mighty sad on stage when it was time for them to hit the road and pimp their single.

cyndi lauper being the exception of course. hahaha. she was friggin' amazing live.

I'm kind of revising my earlier complaints now. I think I was too hard on the singer. But I think that came from the disconnect I hear between her voice and the studio versions of these songs. I totally understand now why I thought it sounded like karaoke. It doesn't come across at all that way in the live versions. It almost sounds to me like the standing studio versions are themselves remixes, just remixed by someone a lot less talented than Lindstrom.

x-post

wk, the live vocals may be technically sloppier but they read as less sloppy to me because they integrate with the other stuff happening in the music.

Scott, you're right, but the sad thing here is that this band seems like a legit live band who was then polished to death in the studio, rather than a studio creation forced to go tour in order to pimp product. I wish somewhere someone along the line had had the courage to produce them a little closer to how they actually sound.

(PS: I don't think anybody is "wrong" for liking or prefering the studio versions, in case I'm coming across as too much of a grumpy hardass.)

I think most ppl are saying there isn't an appreciable gulf/difference in quality between the studio and live versions

yeah, the people who can't hear out of tune singing

um

People like DJP, who can't hear out of tune singing.

I love the drum sounds on the record. And the singing.

And everything else.

I'd probably like the record less if it was more stripped down.

hi guys what'd I miss

And also none of the remixes I've heard are anywhere near as good as the originals.

The record actually feels stripped down to me compared to the live versions. There's more stuff happening; the sonic-events-per-second rate is higher. But it feels more flat.

Or maybe I don't understand "stripped down"

People like DJP, who can't hear out of tune singing.

well if you can't hear the difference between the earlier version of forever and the tuned up version on the album then yeah

Reverend OTM

agreed. When I heard the remixes last spring I actually got "uhhh" about the album, which is unfair but whatever. I'm glad I was wrong.

Their Letterman performance sounds just like the record, just with more bass-face.

Also, this is now easily the album of the year for me. The number of great songs and relentless hooks on this record is overwhelming - enough for an entire career.

Also, I really like what Tim said about the rhythm and vocal interplay.

are there two different versions of the wire? i thought i heard two different ones. i like the one with the eagles heartache tonight beat. i always wanted someone to use that beat. i like that it reminds me of shania and i think mutt would have made it even bigger. but its cool to get a shania flashback out of nowhere.

i never see spencer chow posts. i must hang out in the wrong circles.

there are multiple versions of "The Wire" but they all have the same beat iirc

i never see spencer chow posts. i must hang out in the wrong circles.

I was thinking roughly the same thing, surprised to see he still posts here. But he's been here all along under other user names.

I think I might like this album mostly *because* of the production.

I only used one other username for a while about 4 years ago (just haven't been posting much). Curious about these other me's!

But anyway, realized I listened to the HAIM record more in a few days than i have RAM in how many months?

Curious about these other me's!

Haha, I meant to write "maybe he's been here. . ." Somehow the maybe got lost.

But anyway, realized I listened to the HAIM record more in a few days than i have RAM in how many months?

and a good man you are for this

ok i got curious.

i didn't really expect to like this.

but it's really a great pop album. what can you say? they got the tunes.

at various times in my life i've thought "ok, as a society we've figured it out, THIS is what great music sounds like, let's just DO THIS FROM NOW ON" - i remember DJP had similar sentiments about sonz of a loop da loop era hardcore at some point. and i feel like haim has lit upon this particular constellation of 80s pop with the same idea. as if everything since john cougar mellencamp has been a constant, annealing process of refinement.

in this respect it has a lot in common with the daft punk record but for some reason, feeling out for the reference points on the haim record feels FUN and on the daft punk record sort of feels obligatory.

you can just mentally add "to me" at the end of all my posts obv

well there's a whole conceptual layer with RAM that does that obv, this seems a lot more natural in its selection and incorporation of influences

yeah i keep wanting to come up with the secret but most obvious thing they are cribbing from that everyone has overlooked heretofore. it's peter gabriel! no wait, bob seger!

"at various times in my life i've thought "ok, as a society we've figured it out, THIS is what great music sounds like, let's just DO THIS FROM NOW ON" - i remember DJP had similar sentiments about sonz of a loop da loop era hardcore at some point. and i feel like haim has lit upon this particular constellation of 80s pop with the same idea. as if everything since john cougar mellencamp has been a constant, annealing process of refinement."

That's an interesting take on your embrace of this record--I like it.