Jay Z/ Nas and other hiphop throwdowns...resurrected. Part 4

But since we talking about 50, I gots to go with Chris Rock. All you hear about 50 is "he got shot 9 times!" hows the record? "HE GOT SHOT 9 TIMES!". Yeah some of the tracks are tight, but most of that is down to production, and yeah he puts down (a few) hot lines but it aint a great album. As for him being hardcore, well, the spits are hardcore, the way he does it aint. If you want hardcore, go with DMX.

But to leave on a high note, heres a little from my man Dizzee Rascal. 19 year old kid from London who just won the Mercury music prize which is a pretty big deal over here.

"more destructive and troublesome than ever/i'll PROBABLY be doing this PROBABLY forever/fellas wanna stop me they'll PROBABLY come together/its PROBABLE they'll stop me/PROBABLY - never"

I'm out like... part 1, part 2 and part 3...

Peace

his new single is a lot more fun if you imagine him yelling "I LOVE DIIICK" instead of the actual chorus. and the video supplants what is usually his overt homoeroticism with ALL OUT GAY PORN ORGY.

1) He basically (w/songs like Rikers Island, Streets of New York, and Talk Like Sex) was the first hardcore gangsta NYC MC.

2) His tragically underrated Live and Let Die (even though it supposedly got butchered in the final release thanx to Ice-T's cop killa) is really the first NYC record to incoporate some of the West Coast sound and gangsta attitude...Bascially, the same thing Biggie did with Ready to Die but 2 years before Biggie came out

3) His flow, voice, lyrics, everything are damn near perfect

http://www.vh1.com/shows/dyn/the_greatest/65574/episode_wildcard.jhtml?wildcard=/shows/dynamic/includes/wildcards/the_greatest/50hip_hop/1_50_aux.jhtml&event_id=864597

look for yourself....Salt n Pepa is in the top 10, that's all I'll say (and Arrested Development made the fucking list!)

50 Cent isn't trying to sound hard.

I love everything I've heard by Foxy (which is two songs, maybe).

1. Run-D.M.C.

2. Public Enemy

3. 2Pac

4. The Notorious B.I.G.

5. LL Cool J

6. Eminem

7. Dr. Dre

8. Grandmaster Flash

9. Salt-N-Pepa

10. Jay-Z

11. Beastie Boys

12. Wu-Tang Clan

13. NWA

14. P. Diddy

15. Missy Elliott

16. Ice-T

17. Fugees / Lauryn Hill

18. Afrika Bambaattaa

19. Nas

20. Eric B & Rakim

21. Outkast

22. KRS-One

23. DMX

24. Queen Latifah

25. Snoop Dogg

26. Ice Cube

27. A Tribe Called Quest

28. Busta Rhymes

29. Nelly

30. Will Smith / D.J. Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh

31. Naughty By Nature

32. Cypress Hill

33. De La Soul

34. Lil' Kim

35. Big Daddy Kane

36. Master P

37. The Roots

38. Biz Markie

39. Ja Rule

40. Gang Starr

41. MC Lyte

42. Kurtis Blow

43. Coolio

44. MC Hammer

45. Heavy D. & The Boyz

46. Eve

47. Arrested Development

48. Kool Moe Dee

49. Tone Loc

50. Sugarhill Gang

I think when I say that an MC is "real" I really mean "I like his music" and when I say an MC is fake I really mean "I don't like his music" Also, when it comes down to it, who cares if it's so real it's beyond fake or whatever, as long as it's good?

Sorry if what I wrote is a bit schematic, or glib; I'm trying to be concise. Anyway, the paradox is profound, and it's not going to disappear, because it has strong causes and deep roots. A Jewish poet enslaved in Babylon wrote "For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song/And they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying/'Sing us one of the songs of Zion'/But how can we sing the Lord's song/In a strange land?" So anyone who's made complicit in his own oppression (and few aren't) might feel that death is more honest than mirth, self-destruction more real than a song. "Let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth." But in music the cliché is getting increasingly wrung dry. Eminem can still wrest great poetry out of it, but for most it's become a tired trope, albeit one that can still kill them. The term "hardcore" deserves to dodder off to its grave, whether it's punk, rave, hip-hop, or porn.

Okay also on this real thing frank I think yr right that the "real" is a construct but the point is to grasp it not wish it away. Then you can play with it, coz see we GOTTA thing about the real otherwise what's the point of the music. DMX doesn't rock the thug image, but its like jess quipped he's emo. I mean he ties the "pain" of being an entertainer to the "pain" of hard streets like I love that "X put in years of work and its ALL FOR THE KIDS" line in X Gonna Give It To Ya.

still i think that its sorta utopian to ask that we eliminiate "the real" from pop and its discourse. i mean it seems to be the only thing pop is about. i mean doesn't arguing about "real" map onto arguing about "real hip-hop" map onto arguing about GENRE boundaries which I thought we agreed was part of the vital life of music in the FIRST PLACE?

Which I wasn't suggesting that we do. Sorry Sterling, you're one of the brightest men on here, but I can't think of a more boring response to what I wrote than to decide that I'm saying that "the real" is a construct and that "the real" should be eliminated from pop and its discourse. O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be that subjects you to interminable irrelevant talk about the real being a social construct.

All I got to say is I PUT Y'ALL NIGGAS UP ON JADAKISS!

I was gonna try and read everyone who posted, but I got bored so I'll go to three of the topics I saw...

Whoever said they wanted to spit, I say... SPIT! If you seen any of the earlier shit from Bob or even Squirrel Police, you can easily do better than that. In fact, watch me: "I'm a poet, bout to show it, don't you know it?" See? Thanks to Boob and Squirlplise, that's not the worse line spat!

Now, let's not even get to our favorite MCs! Dammit, my PERSONAL list would go 2Pac, Pimp C of UGK, Big Boi of Outkast, Andre "Ice Cold" 3000, and Juicy J of Three 6. But that's DA SOUTH in me. If I had to list the top five MCs UNBIASED it would go 2Pac, BIG, Eminem, Jay-Z, and Outkast. But tell the truth, A3K fucks it up on "Hey Ya!" You know you like it.

Finally, 50 Cent's album is nice. Like 3:16 (U Never Imagined This Evil Dilemma... my neezy), I agree it's at least 60% production - it's Dre, dammit - but 50 still be havin me rollin. He's nice, definitely nowhere near Pac or Big or even Jay-Z, and sellin like crazy. And simply, his album is just mad nice. Mad nice.

All right, I'm gone.

I'm out like part 1, 2, and... oops, my bad 3:16... Peace!

'i don't like much rap
except dmx because
he's kind of a goth'

Yo, trife, cousin, I gotta admit that Lil Flip is hilarious. And Pastor Troy do come out with a few songs I like. But Troy sucks. His whole career was built off dissin No Limit for absolutely no reason other than to make a name for himself. He even said that was why! How gay is that? TI has very nice CD. Rubber Band Man is my cut. But on King of Da South he says, "Ain't but 5 rappers bustin out Atlanta and I'm one of em." Who are the other 5? One has to be Outkast. So that would leave 3 and there are many other Atlanta artists.

DMX's first CD was extremely nice. I think with all the BIG/Jay-Z/Nas Illmatic/Reasonable Doubt/Ready to Die is a classic first album, DMX gets lost in the midst. It's Dark is quite frankly better than Illmatic and Ready to Die COMBINED if you ask me and it is better than Reasonable Doubt, even though RD is mad nice. But I think Earl will never match It's Dark cause he came out too hard for any of his other albums to come close.

All right, I'm gone.

I'm out like Styles run. Peace!

(Yall know that line is wrong, it's just wrong! I appologize to Cookie [Magic Johnson's wife] :P)

What's good people? Glad to be back. Let me address a few topics...

I won't even go there with Hillis saying "It's dark & Hell is Hot" is better than Ready To Die, RD & Illmatic combined!! You must really wanted to get a rise out of someone to say that. Cause I know you honestly don't think that. It's Dark is a great album, but I strongly disagree with it being better then RD, Ready To Die & Illmatic combined.

This 50 Cent craze that sweaped the nation didn't surprise me one bit. I think Star from the Star & Bucwild show said it best. There is a reason the nigga got a Million Dollar contract. the Eminem Connection helped him pushed units. Along to coincide with that, was the fact middle America is intrigued with his story, suburbia wants to be like him. The beef with Ja Rule arising to commercialism. Then lets not forget his loyal following in the Underground scene since 1999. It all calculated to him being the next big thing. But what surprised me was his work ethic after the album success. He's been blazing up the airwaves along with the Underground at the same time. I'm not a true fan of him necessarily. But I did like "Power Of The Dollar," also a few joints off of "50 Cent Is The Future" & "No Mercy, No Fear" ... funny stuff in there. I'm kinda past the whole thing with 50 being the next big thing. Now I'm Patiently Waiting on his nigga Lloyd Banks to drop his solo album. IMHO, I think he's better then 50 Cent and outshines him on 80% of the tracks they have done together. Sooner or later I see Lloyd breaking out from them. I've already heard they have had fights backstage, and in the studio. It's just a matter of time before the other G-Unit members will realize he's batter, then they will want him out.

You guys have probably heard or seen Cassidy beat the shit in that (Pre-Write) battle against Freeway. I know a whole bunch of niggas ain't sleeping on him now since that battle. But I have a feeling his destine to be that next nigga. Not like a 50 Cent or a Jay-z, but more of a gutter success like Jadakiss or Styles P. He has Swizz on the boards backing him up. He has a hot bed of RR talent waiting to blaze a track up with him. He's proved he can rhyme already. It's just to him to convert himself from a punchline rapper to rapper who can handle it in the booth. A lot of niggas can rap, but they can't be professional in the booth. But I got my eye on him.

Finally, I'm proud to see at least a few regulars back here. Maybe there is a second run in store for the "Hip-Hop Throwdown" ...We can't call it the "Jay-z vs. Nas Hip-Hop Throwdown" anymore. I feel we have grown out of that converse, I consider this a community more so than a single topic. We are more than just battles & disses... WE ARE HIP-HOP.

50s underground mixes just keep gettin bigger and bigger, his last one had more famous guests than his actual album, luda, neptunes, sean paul... whats he doin?? i agree lloyd banks is a tight mc but i dont know if hes got the star power of his g unit leader... as for 50 he should just release a best of from all his mixes as a major label release, it would be killin most rappers albums out right now.

cassidy seems aight so far, not great yet but i think hes got something, i just started another thread on ilxor.com about his song with jada and im feelin both their verses hard plus the beat is niiiice. still havent heard his battle with freeway but id believe he won it, freeway is kinda a pussy rapper, he tries to be ghost with distressed vocal shit and i like him sometimes but hes not the greatest battle mc. i think its time for more street talent in the game, styles p isnt that gully though lately hes more on a pop tip with that i get high like hippies afroman type shit!! i was feeling his song with kim though, nice verse. and cass is a good at punchlines but hes still not on jadas level, remember his verse on the lox song 'recognize' where he comes with one just classic line after another:

'aint none of yall better than lox / have all yall dressed up in a suit dead in a box / me and my niggas get redder than foxx / i dont care if i love you, still want head of the drop / niggas runnin round talkin that y2k shit / crackheads still gon want that gray shit / thats why ima always cop the yay quick / so i suggest all of yall stay on jay dick / too hard for mtv, not black enough for bet, just let me be / gimme all my royalty money and let me greed / ima have hoes for six, and hash for three'

aight im done! man thats a long post, i dont got a real sign-off yet like most of yall do, what should i come up with?? let me try one... yo im gone like b from jiggas arm after the black album drops!!! that was corny... peace yall

i'm from the hood where the dropouts is banging for the feeling
for houses with tvs hanging from the ceilings
we gamble on ball courts
keep the paint peeling
you either play ball or rap if you ain't dealing
i'm stuck in the past
shit changed since the 80s
i know ladies, that got babies with babies
out here its basketball and speedbags
and guns that'll stiffen you up like freeze tag

niggas know I'm hot
but my ice cold enough to freeze whole towns
still follow the code: gs up, hoes down
i see you ballin and your rocks is chilly
now, my g-unit niggas dont ride bikes that don't pop a wheelie
i aint straight 'til i'm livin where it's hot and sandy
and the benz's complexion is cotton candy
i bounced up, here's the best part
you niggas don't know what pain is
the only scar on your body's a stretch mark

i like that. but he doesn't have the charisma and the delivery. 50 and tony aren't as good at the kind of stuff that lloyd does but i'd rather hear them. and he definitely never outshines them!

I think when you are watching the doc short played back and you realize you are the dude standing on the platform imitating the jerking movements of a black man struggling to keep from being lynched, you should have some regrets.

http://img.youtube.com/vi/1YWYPaY5UUg/0.jpg

g.o.a.t. eyes

omg :55

the salad days of Qoolout and Hillis 3000