Tom Waits: classic or dud/search & destroy

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Consider that circa Closing Time, Asylum/David Geffen thought that they had another Billy Joel on their hands. Incredible.

I love Tom Waits more than life itself.

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

lauren, I Never Talk To Strangers (the Bette Midler duet) is awesome! In it's own way! ;P

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

I love pretty much everything that he's done, though I do agree that Foreign Affairs (but still...) is probably the weakest record he's done. Renting Bone Machine from Edgware library was probably my single most formative musical experience. I've never been the same! I love The Black Rider, too. In retrospect, Mule Variations was a bit Tom-by-numbers, but Chocolate Jesus off of that record is one of my favourite Waits songs. Is it me, or is Frank's Wild Years curiously underrated?

Sometimes I tell people I moved to the Bay Area in the hopes of bumping into Tom. Even I don't know if I'm joking or not.

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:09 (twenty years ago) link

"Cold Water" off that record is incredible also but yes, i forget that cd's playing when i pit it on.

jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:12 (twenty years ago) link

yeah discovering bone machine at age 16 or so was a mind-blower!

haven't listened to him in quite a while though, I kinda overdid it there

s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:12 (twenty years ago) link

im in love with him. ;-)

jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:13 (twenty years ago) link

oh YOU.

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:13 (twenty years ago) link

(can't fault your taste, though) :)

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:14 (twenty years ago) link

But Mule Variations has "Big In Japan" and "Hold On" and "Get Behind The Mule"! It may be a bit om-by-numbers in places, but there's this almost physical sense of weariness throughout which none of his other albums ever capture... it's a record where he shows his age.

The Black Rider is shit-scary... I still need to acquire Bone Machine.

TS: Alice vs Blood Money? I go with the latter, though "Alice" is possibly the best song from the two of them put together.

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:15 (twenty years ago) link

let's see. on frank's wild years we have "hang on st.christopher," "temptation," "innocent when you dream," "yesterday's here," "way down in the hole," "telephone call from istanbul," "cold, cold ground," and "train song."
if this record is underrated, it's more than curious - it's criminal!

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:18 (twenty years ago) link

yay! its his best record, i think. that and bone machine.

jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:23 (twenty years ago) link

whats his worst?

gaz (gaz), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:40 (twenty years ago) link

franks wild years is the best, I think, and I have much much affection for the black rider

didn't really care for mule variations though, and his last two left me a little cold, though I think "blood money" is the better of the two

s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 1 December 2003 02:16 (twenty years ago) link

I just bought Black Rider, having been previously put off by the AMG review. To be honest, I've listened to it once and it's currently m fave since swordfishtrombones.

dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 1 December 2003 02:34 (twenty years ago) link

it's so good!

s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 1 December 2003 03:09 (twenty years ago) link

frank's wild years is definitely my favorite

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 1 December 2003 05:58 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, Mule Variations is great. I keep meaning to pick up Small Change from the bargain bins because of the band on it.

Also, Marc Ribot!!

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:13 (twenty years ago) link

Pleasingly feminine: http://www.front.net/gtausch/waits.jpg

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:52 (twenty years ago) link

Earth Died Screaming
http://www.sallykirkland.com/images/gallery/coldft2.jpg

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:54 (twenty years ago) link

Overrated. Not by much, but he seems to enjoy this sort of "if you like him, you're in the secret club" status more than almost anyone else. I haven't been especially moved by his last few records, but I was a huge fan from like Frank's Wild Years to Black Rider (in realtime, and I worked my back) I currently don't have any T.W. at home, but if I was to get anything, it would probably Nighthawks at the Diner.

Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:54 (twenty years ago) link

franks wild years is the best of the later for me, and foreign affairs, the best of the earlier. the bette midler duet is possibly his best song!

charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:54 (twenty years ago) link

Dud. I feel bad when I walk into a store or student-oriented take-out place and some poor misguided souls are playing his music.

Rockist Scientist, Monday, 1 December 2003 17:55 (twenty years ago) link

Ditto for Nick Cave.

Rockist Scientist, Monday, 1 December 2003 17:56 (twenty years ago) link

Rockist JOTO

Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:57 (twenty years ago) link

Pish.

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:59 (twenty years ago) link

I've got nothing but admiration for those two misself, and consider Cave's "The Mercy Seat" the best J. Cash of the last 20 years. But they're both severely overrated. They're way too often token weirdness or worse, weirdness-worn-on-sleeve.

Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 1 December 2003 18:02 (twenty years ago) link

but the music is still good! who cares how other people wear it?

s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 1 December 2003 19:16 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.dking-gallery.com/pix/Waits/WaitsTu.jpg

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Monday, 1 December 2003 19:52 (twenty years ago) link

six months pass...
From The Wire:

"The next generaton of an underworld American musical dynasty makes its debut on a new LP currently being worked on by Tom Waits. The singer's son Casey appears playing percussion and turntables on the album, working title Real Gone, slated for release this autumn on Anti Records."

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link

And yes, I know, there were turntables on Mule Variations. But they weren't played by his son!!!

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link

I really, really hope that this isn't a bad sign!

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Heh. I once read a quote from a musician who had worked with Waits to the effect of, "I think he would hire all six-year-olds for his bands if he could get away with it."

Jordan (Jordan), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Look at it this way, at least it's not DJ Logic.

Jordan (Jordan), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:17 (nineteen years ago) link

I know I'm chiming in late on this one - but absolute classic, def. one of my all time faves, though I need to be in the mood these days.

Best song: Who Are You from [i]Bone Machine[/i]. Does anyone else find this song to be the most perfect song/performance of his career. Reduces me to a husk every time.

Fave albums are [i]Closing Time, Swordfishtrombones, Franks Wild Years[/i] and [i]Bone Machine[/i]. [i]Mule Variations[/i] and [i]Alice/Blood Money[i/] I like very much, though a little patchy. Given what albums I love, should I get [i]Black Rider[/i]?

PT, Sunday, 27 June 2004 22:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Please ignore dodgy HTML work there!

PT, Sunday, 27 June 2004 23:01 (nineteen years ago) link

i'll bet the turntables are hand cranked 78's!

gaz (gaz), Sunday, 27 June 2004 23:04 (nineteen years ago) link

wick-wick-wicked!

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:09 (nineteen years ago) link

<crossed fingers>please please please be good</crossed fingers>

jed_ (jed), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:14 (nineteen years ago) link

We've all jinxed it by even thinking about it!

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Has anyone heard that Ramones cover he did? Apparently his kid plays drums on it.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:22 (nineteen years ago) link

if it's bad i will hold you personally responsible, Adam.

jed_ (jed), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:25 (nineteen years ago) link

NO!

"The Ramones cover" is probably "I Don't Wanna Grow Up" - on Bone Machine.

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 28 June 2004 01:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Nah, it's "The Return of Jackie & Judy" on this.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 28 June 2004 01:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Oooh.

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 28 June 2004 01:58 (nineteen years ago) link

"Tom Waits was a bit stunned when he heard the news of his latest Grammy nomination for “Best Male Rock Vocal Performance” for “Return Of Jack & Judy,” his contribution to We’re A Happy Family: A Tribute to the Ramones (Columbia Records), which also featured tracks performed by Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rob Zombie, Eddie Vedder/Zeke, Metallica, John Frusciante, Kiss, Marilyn Manson, Garbage, Green Day, The Offspring, Pretenders, Rancid, Pete Yorn, Rooney and U2.

According to Johnny Ramone, “It took the Ramones 30 years to be eventually nominated for a Grammy. Thanks to Tom Waits for finally getting us there.”

Tom Waits recorded the track for the tribute album with his son Casey Waits on drums and Les Claypool of Primus on bass, while Brett Gurewitz from Bad Religion and Epitaph Records founder co-produced and played guitar. “The only honor possibly greater than producing and playing on a Tom Waits track would be to do it for The Ramones,” said Gurewitz. “The fact that it’s nominated for a Grammy makes it all the more surreal.”"

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 28 June 2004 02:02 (nineteen years ago) link

ENOUGH WITH THE PRIMUS!

(Les Claypool is on the new record again, I know at least one ILXer will be delighted at this. *hint* it's not ME)

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 28 June 2004 02:06 (nineteen years ago) link

It would be me if my name started with an N and ended with an ick! Really though, he's never sounded at all identifiable on Waits records, which is to his credit.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 28 June 2004 02:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Going back real quickly to the C/D thing, I love most all of what I have of Waits' catalogue (which is now a little over half of it). After reading this thread, I really regret not owning Frank's Wild Years, Black Rider, and Blue Valentine. I'll have to check them out. I was introduced to Waits last year by a professor who has a bit of a Waitsian persona himself.

Of what I've heard, I enjoy the Swordfishtrombones and later material more than pre-SFT. On the Swordfishtrombones vs. Rain Dogs point, somebody previously said they favored Rain Dogs on the basis that by then he had more time to grow into the new sound he was crafting and that Rain Dogs was less patchy (which I'm not sure if they meant in terms of consistancy of sound or just consistancy of performance), the lesser consistancy of sound of Swordfish is what is so great about that album to me [Holy run on sentence, sorry folks]. He pulls out the mush balladry of In The Neighborhood right next to the smoky storytelling of Frank's Wild Years right next to the xylophone jazz of Swordfishtrombones, I love it. Alice vs. Blood Money, the extreme theatrics of Alice (not to say that most Waits isn't big) win me over (and like someone said earlier, 'Alice' is just such an amazing track).

Reed Rosenberg (reed), Monday, 28 June 2004 02:46 (nineteen years ago) link

'Alice' = a rewrite of (or at least v. v. similar to) 'You Don't Know What Love Is'. Jordan, back me up.

Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 28 June 2004 03:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Maybe his speaking voice is contrived as well. It could well be that he has "forgotten" his normal voice. There is a sudden change of his voice from the first two albums to the others to a much lower register. Do you really think that was natural?

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Friday, 18 August 2017 12:41 (six years ago) link

there's nothing 'natural' about Tom Waits. his entire act is, well, it's an act. but like you say, it's hard to tell how much of it he has absorbed into his natural persona of course

Shat Parp (dog latin), Friday, 18 August 2017 12:58 (six years ago) link

There is a sudden change of his voice from the first two albums to the others to a much lower register. Do you really think that was natural?

I disagree, and I'm listening to Closing Time as I type this. The voice sounds almost the same to me, just a little more singer-songwriter/country and a little less Howlin' Wolf/Captain Beefheart. Maybe a little more nasal and a little less chest/throat. That's all.

grawlix (unperson), Friday, 18 August 2017 13:56 (six years ago) link

he didnt go full howlin' until heart attack and vine, which by all accounts is a great success of an album

kurt schwitterz, Friday, 18 August 2017 15:39 (six years ago) link

His voice on the Glitter and Doom live album is verging on death metal. I was a bit disappointed by the lack of nuance on that one, even though the playing is great.

Shat Parp (dog latin), Friday, 18 August 2017 15:48 (six years ago) link


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