Macklemore, "Same Love"

is he opening for Depeche Mode?

You can shrug everything off by saying, "I'm a fucking human being," or you can actually be a fucking human being and use your fucking human being brain so that you become the change you say you wish for the world.

Had Juzwiak constructed his argument/objection to Macklemore wholly around this point, I might be nodding along in agreement right now, but this piece as a whole reads like such an inchoate screed that I can't help but assume (not having been following his writing on Macklemore) that Juzwaik is in some ongoing process of sniping at every little thing this guy does or says. Far more Mean Girls than thoughtful, reasoned takedown, basically.

is he a bad guy rev??

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:05 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean maybe i missed it, inbetween the parts where he was talking specifics about how his skin color has smoothed a path to mainstream acceptance that a lot of other rappers don't have access to?

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:08 PM Bookmark

I don't have any issue with his statements quoted in the piece, no. But I do with some of his songs and with the way he's been received (although the latter is somewhat beyond his control, obviously). By the way, can we not do this "white person condescendingly asks black person to justify their frustrations about race" thing? Please.

But basically, my beef at the moment is with Juz, for taking people's legit arguments against Macklemore and distorting them into absurdity to attack a fairly on-point statement because he doesn't leak either Macklemore or the people originating those arguments.

doesn't like*

And people who get all defensive when confronted with privilege theory get the side-eye in general.

when you get to the point where the only course of action you'd accept from a musician is that they stop making music and repent all past works, it's probably time to stop writing about them.

I listened to Nardwuar's 2011 interview with Macklemoo. It was striking how much he didn't know about hip-hop dudes from Seattle, even dudes that he apparently namechecks in his songs. I don't know how common it is for rap mans to not know shit about dudes they give shout-outs and props to.

i'm really sorry that i came off condescending. i respect the hell out of your take on things and it's frustrating for ME not to know what they are. i've asked you before in this thread what your beef is with this guy (i don't think you got back to me though)

rev i would be v interested to read your takedown.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:31 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think i was surprised by you insinuating that macklemore is a "bad guy" specifically w/r/t to that piece because his quotes in that piece are like, reading from the hymn book of what you need to say if you're a successful white pop rapper.

(above post to the rev, obv)

but really genuinely - really not trying to pry some kind of justification out of you. there IS something immediately skeevy about the guy, like just visually (and don't even get me started on ryan lewis... *brrrr*). then again i felt the same way about rafael nadal and now i love him.

rev i would be v interested to read your takedown.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:31 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I meant to address this but I didn't have time or energy when you asked and never got back around to it. Gonna grab some lunch right now but I'll get back to you later.

haha no sweat!! sorry for snark.

man that's a late lunch even for your time zone. don't mess with hungry rev.

My major problem with him and not his music is he clearly demonstrates an understanding of how his race positions him as a pop rapper and how he is received because of it, which is a great first step, but it's still just the first step. I don't see him doing anything to actively undermine the fucked up perceptions people have about him, what he's doing as a rapper and how that relates to what other rappers are doing or rap as a whole. That these perceptions benefit him just reads like him talking a good game about privilege while still fully taking advantage of it. Like, has he ever really pushed back against the perception of him as the lone rapper willing to positively discuss homosexuality in his music? Or is he content to milk that while actual gay rappers are paid no mind? It feels like the latter.

I listened to Nardwuar's 2011 interview with Macklemoo. It was striking how much he didn't know about hip-hop dudes from Seattle, even dudes that he apparently namechecks in his songs. I don't know how common it is for rap mans to not know shit about dudes they give shout-outs and props to.

― how's life, Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah one of the things thats kinda funny abt him is his heartfelt apologies and soul searching on behalf of 'rap music' except that hes not really part of the rap music that hes apologizing for, he came up through this separate frat rap/undie silo, its kinda like some indie rock dude apologizing for a metal band or w/e

its kinda funny tho everyone putting their cases together for why he is so bad and hated

he is so horrible there must be a rational explination

its also kinda funny how a guy with literally a song called white privilege is getting accused of white privilege stuff, its tuff out there for the wite man

to be fair his song called white privilege is fucking terrible

all of his songs are terrible

well all his music is terrible which is a major issue here

lol

My major problem with him and not his music is he clearly demonstrates an understanding of how his race positions him as a pop rapper and how he is received because of it, which is a great first step, but it's still just the first step.

haha in Chris Heath's Pet Shop Boys book Neil Tennant gets sneery at boy bands like Bros who go on and on about 'longevity' as a concept: holding the right attitudes and hiring the right agents to stay in the biz; their music, such as it is, gets subsumed by surviving and staying in the biz.

Greer: I'm p sure that's part of the point Juzwiak is trying to make, but he does it in a way that's so backhanded to the rest of the people who care about this stuff that I can't even countenance his argument.

Tracer: I have a really long half-written post that I'll try to finish later tonight. That's probably why I haven't explained myself well before is because my thoughts on this matter are so lengthy.

yes!

kick in the door waivin' the fourfour

does living in Washington make the Macklemore phenomenon more unbearable, or does it make u slightly more sympathetic to him/his fans than you would be otherwise? or both?

that's a general question to anyone who lives in the pacific nw really - I'm just curious about what it's like living there and experiencing this whole thing, I imagine it's p different from atlanta

both probably? I'll have more to say about this later the weird thing about Macklemore's place in the current landscape here is that the Seattle rap scene is really healthy and diverse right now but Mack is kind of a relic of a previous era. A lot of the young rappers in Seattle are quite explicit about not fucking with Macklemore but most of the people who came up in the early/mid-2000s are his peers and have his back 100%.

haha, they're the dudes he used to open for, basically

kick in the door waivin' the fourfour

― some dude, Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:29 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not gonna let this post go unacknowledged

XD

haven't read the gawker piece but i gave up on juzwiak a while ago

The only valuable thing he's done in the past couple years is the glossary of Mariah-isms.

i still ride for for Def Juz

i have no problem with him but since getting w/ Gawker he writes about a lot less stuff that interests me and seems to write a lot more that actively pisses off other people for various reasons

He has better taste in dance music than anyone else. I don't really care what he thinks about Macklemore. I don't really care what anyone thinks about Macklemore.

no wait just hear me out

He has better taste in dance music than anyone else.

*recoils sharply*

Yeah, I still remember that argument too.

i still like rjuz but he def seems to have gotten a lil more bitter at how ppl lash out at him. which, i dunno, i see as kind of understandable

I've been a fan of his writing in the past--his Pazz & Jop essay on pop's pandering to gay audiences in the It Gets Better era is essential--but he seems to write a lot about things like reality television that no amount of good writing could possibly force me to care about.

For a second I was all "I cannot imagine Macklemore's Pazz and Jop essay being all THAT essential."

ctrl + f "mackleless" -- not found?!

― festival culture (Jordan), Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:01 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

lol.

rj is consistently really just missing basic facts when it comes to race/history/etc. i pointed this out before but in his django piece he referred to a 'dictator of barbados' in the 20th century, which is among other things not true. i don't want to dredge up old shit but this pattern has been going on forever. i understand why people can enjoy his writing at times or whatever, but he just needs to stay the hell away from topics that he's not going to put in the time to engage with properly.

That clearly doesn't apply to his columns about his sex life.

dude wants to land on the right side, but somehow doesn't put in the work to understand exactly what that side is. there's something knee-jerk about it.

tumblr outrage point has finally reached the tipping point on ILX