― mark s, Monday, 21 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Robin Carmody, Monday, 21 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Mark S, and everybody else, will be unsurprised to hear that I don't know what 'Get Your (Ur, was it?) Freak On' (?) is.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 22 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 22 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 22 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
First TH says,
>>> Two phenomena have recently violated the wholeness of the Song. Dance music and DJing is one. DJs generally playing tracks that are explicitly meant to be shut off well before the song ends, and begun well after it's started. The songs are relational, and not sufficient unto themselves. [etc]
I don't doubt that this is true, and that you have described the situation very well. But it doesn't affect my 'argument' - I mean, my view of what, for my purposes, a song is - because I am not really interested in that kind of music.
>>> The second 'ting, which is still as yet a bit unformed in my mind (so take me apart please) -- is that clearly, somewhere along the line, most pop artists have REALLY started paying attention to production detail.
Again, this is probably right, and is well-observed. But once again, I really don't think that it affects my conception of the song one way or another. You can write a song, then stick any number of details on it (in a titchy and unknown way I have done that myself) - the song remains the song.
>>> I think this begins roughly when pop artists became expected to write their own songs, be "original." ... I guess what I'm proposing is that once the expectation was set that studio recordings of pop musicians were to be original, authentic, sui generis, it stood to reason that the sonic texture (which people were just starting to notice as hi-fis and headphones became more common) must be as well.
Hm - you seem to be equating the moment when people had to *write their own songs* with the moment when bands had to *have their own sound* (roughly speaking). I don't really see why these two should necessarily be the same at all. That's partly because I view writing a song and forming a sound / tinkering in the studio as two different things; partly because I can imagine distinctive sounds being applied to any number of people who did not write their own material. Your overall point about a trajectory towards distinctive sounds seems right - I just don't quite see the link with songwriting.
>>> None of this really argues that the sonics and lyric significance of a song can't be holistically balanced.
Well, to repeat: I am not particularly talking about *lyrics*, which I tend to view as the poor relation among the parts of a song. Perhaps I shouldn't. Stevie T has argued very well, in the past, for the ongoing importance of lyrics on pop records.
>>> I think Get Ur Freak On does this very well, actually.
Again - don't know what this is.
>>> But I think the historical moment when a song could be complete in and of itself (am I demagoguing you pf? or not understanding?) has passed, and the body really is violated with all kinds of glitter paint and textural nipple-piercings.
No, I don't think you are misunderstanding me; and you put your case beautifully. But I think that I disagree with you quite strongly all the same. From my point of view, nothing has ever changed re. the integrity of 'the song'. If 'the song' has ever had any integral identity in and of itself, then it still does. From my point of view, it would be quite nice to think more about sonic textures and funny effects; but most of the time the only resources available are a pen, a sheet of A4, and an acoustic guitar that needs restringing. As a 'sonic effect', that gets rather samey; the 'effects', such as they are, had better be in the 'song'.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― the pinefox, Friday, 25 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 15:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― o. nate, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frogman Henry, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 16:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― o. nate, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 16:40 (seventeen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― o. nate, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 20:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― o. nate, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 20:54 (seventeen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― o. nate, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:39 (seventeen years ago) link
― o. nate, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 00:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 00:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― o. nate, Thursday, 1 March 2007 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link
― o. nate, Thursday, 1 March 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Friday, 2 March 2007 12:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― m the g, Friday, 2 March 2007 12:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:37 (seventeen years ago) link
Together Alone is a solidly wonderful album. 'Distant Sun' is just about the perfect Crowded House tune. Surprised they don't have more fans on this thread, tbh.
― sbgorf (stevie), Saturday, 13 August 2011 17:18 (twelve years ago) link
hmmm. the first album has some great moments. am a huge HUGE fan of some of the stuff he wrote and sang w/split enz. but much of CH never really sank into me the way it might have. saw him play at a record store almost a decade ago and it was one of those crazy moments-- couldn't believe that i was in the same room with someone from the other side of the planet (literally!) who wrote so many amazing songs. like i was obsessed with split enz and neil finn from age 10 on. what a sweetheart.
― dell (del), Saturday, 13 August 2011 17:22 (twelve years ago) link
THE SOUND OF TE AWAMUTU HAD A TRULY SACRED RING!
― dell (del), Saturday, 13 August 2011 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP2u5fA4g4Y
this song is all-time afaiac
― dell (del), Saturday, 13 August 2011 17:27 (twelve years ago) link
can't get enough of that frenzy era, when all their chips were down, on the verge of breaking up, and they would blaze through all of these barrelhouse piano-driven songs before their sound magically coalesced into the mtv-friendly true colours period
― dell (del), Saturday, 13 August 2011 17:30 (twelve years ago) link
"Time On Earth" is shockingly good. It's the sound of Neil Finn refining his craft and pouring his heart and soul into it.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 13 August 2011 17:43 (twelve years ago) link
wow, thanks, gerald. i had no idea that record even existed. listening to a couple of songs right now, and your description is spot-on.
― dell (del), Saturday, 13 August 2011 17:56 (twelve years ago) link
Heh, not much of a description for the uninitiated! The album is a giant tribute to Paul Hester, former CH drummer, who had taken his own life. In that sense it's a heavy album but Neil's put so much love and light into it that the sadness is well balanced.
And if it hasn't been mentioned, Neil's finest solo album is "Try Whistling This". Such a majestic, deeply-layered album. As the title indicates, it's a different approach to pop but still spot-on Finn.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 13 August 2011 18:00 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, i need to look into that, too!
at the in-store i saw him at, he played anytime. this was a matter of weeks or so after 9-11. genuinely moving
― dell (del), Saturday, 13 August 2011 18:14 (twelve years ago) link
Finn's second solo album is great, too, and his son's first is strong as well (and eerily a la dad).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtfmQvndTiI
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 13 August 2011 18:36 (twelve years ago) link
And just in case folks missed it, that famed NZ show with Finn backed by Johnny Marr, bassist from Soul Coughing, drummer and guitarist from Radiohead and Lisa Germano. Which evinced this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sije12JaKdA
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 13 August 2011 18:37 (twelve years ago) link
The first album is actually the one I like least. Sure, some good songs (as always from Neil Finn), but the production is kind of boring and got much better and more detailed from the second album onwards. The rest is pure perfection, particularly the pre-hiatus ones.
― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 13 August 2011 20:07 (twelve years ago) link
I don't care for Split Enz aside from the American non-hits -- too damn fussy. But since I listened to Crowded House first I admit to being tainted.
Still love Woodface.
― a 'catch-all', almost humorous, 'Jeez' quality (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 13 August 2011 20:19 (twelve years ago) link
Well, there's Split Enz under Tim and then Split Enz under Tim and Neil. The latter is (more or less) the era with the hits, as such, but even the old stuff boasts some goodies. Like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfytdyMy2-k
But lil bro Neil brought the pop smarts.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 13 August 2011 20:26 (twelve years ago) link
possib my favorite neil finn moment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDJ3th_qhaI
― dell (del), Saturday, 13 August 2011 20:34 (twelve years ago) link
bye-bye blues!
― dell (del), Saturday, 13 August 2011 20:35 (twelve years ago) link
never give up, giving in, it's like kissing good-bye!
― dell (del), Saturday, 13 August 2011 20:37 (twelve years ago) link
not quite the right thread for this, but : time and tide is underrated record imo
― dell (del), Saturday, 13 August 2011 20:47 (twelve years ago) link
Well, there's Split Enz under Tim and then Split Enz under Tim and Neil.
The former - at least the first couple of albums, is effectively Split Enz under Tim and Phil (Judd).
― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 13 August 2011 21:24 (twelve years ago) link
Only to pedants.
Nel Finn's way with ballads is pretty incredible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VwXNdVMggU&feature=related
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 13 August 2011 21:28 (twelve years ago) link
I like Crowded House a lot, but Together Alone is miles above the rest of their output. They sound edgier and rougher, with Youth producing instead of Froom. And so many great album tracks - 'Catherine Wheels', 'In My Command', 'Nails In My Feet' are all terrific.
― funk79, Monday, 15 August 2011 00:42 (twelve years ago) link
R.I.P. Gary Brooker
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 1 June 2022 02:40 (one year ago) link
"Pour le Monde", from the late-era album Time On Earth, might be their best Beatles pastiche:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M96Afkkgas4
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 03:07 (one year ago) link
Heard an interview with Steve Earle decades ago at this point, and he cited Neil Finn as a writer who sounds like the Beatles without sounding *like* the Beatles. Related, there was some dude on Twitter some time ago that was extolling the songwriting prowess of "Neal Finn," and Jason Isbell chimed in with just "First of all, i ..."
And just because:
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 03:50 (one year ago) link
These guys were, predictably, great last night. What a salve. It's got to be both a blessing and a curse that Neil Finn writes so many great songs. They played a couple of brand new ones, too, one that he joked he wrote the day before, practiced on the bus, and perfected by the time they hit the stage, then muttered "if only it were that fucking easy ..." Yeah, no shit, your fault for making it look easy! Got a couple of deep cuts, got the two best known Split Enz songs, got some quality goofing around, even got a bit of Patrick Hernandez’ 1978 disco track “Born to Be Alive""
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFSWh2jzKeQ
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 16 May 2023 11:45 (one year ago) link
have we solved the controversy over the bridge in "Weather With You"
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 16 May 2023 15:16 (one year ago) link
what's the controversy?
― dicbo=v2-ubswizzb&hrt (stevie), Tuesday, 16 May 2023 16:11 (one year ago) link