John Cale - Paris 1919 Poll

i've always preferred the couple of songs from that on fragments of a rainy season to anything from the album proper.

& i'll agree that helen of troy is the weakest island years LP, but it's still pretty great. "china sea" is one of cale's most wonderful tunes (typically nasty lyrics though)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZBxy6KpNj0
music is almost like something off of The Beach Boys Love You.

Cale is the best example of a man getting more attractive as he ages

not a fan of the production on Helen of Troy, but we have songs like "Cable Hogue" "I Keep a Close Watch" and "Leaving It Up To You".

I agree on the hit-or-missness, but I think that's in part just because the good songs are really really good, and also I remember them more since I tend to listen to live stuff more than the original albums. Words for the Dying is uniformly amazing though.

90s and 2000s Cale is really consistent too, I think, maybe just with fewer huge highlights.

he really did have this plodding goofy rock sound circa Helen of Troy. But I think that's well gone by the Sabotage/Live stuff. I agree and disagree with the "70s intellectual's need to attempt rock" -- I mean its clear he's playing at and performing rock as much as just "rocking" but i don't think that's the same as just 'attempting rock' -- he's examining it, using it. But the extent that it has good results in part has to do with the climate he's in, the things that he's grabbing, emulating, repurposing.

He made better albums than Lou Reed in the seventies but Lou caught up and surpassed him after 1982.

no way. the last great lou album was 1980's Growing Up in Public

You mean Mistrial isn't classic?

at this point, i'm comfortable saying it's a tie between lou and john in solo career competition (any decade).
though i might be tempted to say that moe put out the best solo albums of the 80s.

I would also argue that Music For a New Society is better than anything else either of them did in the 80s.

i was gonna celebrate music for a new society with this album and fear upthread but that's definitely an album full of "interesting" songs, meant to be broken, plus "i keep a close watch"

i can only listen to music for a new society under very specific conditions

the only way I could endure the songs on MFANS was on Fragments.

"thoughtless kind" is devastating (on both new society and fragments).

is the Eno-Dylan Thomas project worth a listen?

It's OK, but it does have this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D47E4CNWmZc

/Artificial Intelligence/ doesn't cohere at all, but fuckin' A, "Dying on the Vine"? I'd shave several years off the end of my life to write a song that good.

aero: I prefer this version:



cale's "do not go gentle" is devistating

Yeah, here's that live video clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42JTU4vuyEg

Love his piano playing so much. Still sounding like early minimalism/Velvet Underground. This song sounds like something off Songs for Drella.

LOL how one youtube comment is "great song, great haircut!" Cale's had some of the best haircuts this side of Bryan Ferry.

Trying to decide if there's enough interest to run a vu solo careers poll.... any of you interested

that's a thread where I'd get annoyed but I'm probably up for it. feels like it must've been done though

we all know what aero's favorite VU solo album is
http://images1.mtv.com/shared/media/images/amg_covers/200/drf500/f514/f51483unkw1.jpg?width=300&height=300&enlarge=false&matte=true&matteColor=black&quality=0.85

Girl Yule Know It's True.

if its just like 'solo tracks from any/all vu vets' i'd be into it. don't want to vote directly lou vs. john vs. mo etc.

I'm talking about a tracks poll. We've def done a straight "who had the best solo career" poll

Yes any and all vets tracks. Including nico, guest spots, collabs etc

hey look what doug yule's doing now: http://www.reddogseattle.com/band/

isn't tommy ramone a bluegrass guy now too?

"Doug grew up on the East Coast playing and singing from an early age. In 1968, standing on the wrong street corner, he was captured by The Velvet Underground, a cult rock band, and served a three to five year sentence. On his release he continued his ill advised flirtation with rock and roll for another four or five years, finally retiring to do manual labor. On his fiftieth birthday he received a fiddle and three lessons from a rival and became addicted to the traditional music of the American Southeast. This dependency continues unabated today and finds a creative outlet in RedDog. When he's not kneed-up with RedDog playing tunes, Doug builds violins, violas, and (if his granddaughter keeps practicing) cellos. His instruments can be seen at Lasley & Russ' Violin Shop."

Christ that lyric is seamless. Seamless.

And not written by Cale!

dying on the vine? its credited to him afaik.

I never had heard "Helen of Troy" but was super excited to listen to it, reading Christgau say that his cover of "Pablo Picasso" was Cale at "his mad best", and was really disappointed! to hear that it was prim, rehearsed, sluggish, annoyed, zero-fun music.

dying on the vine? its credited to him afaik.

Which is by Cale.

I thought Larry Sloman wrote the lyrics to "Dying on the Vine," Cale the music....

Yes, but he was talking about Close Watch.

/slow dazzle is really consistent, imo, it's that dumb long track with eno at the end that sucks./

"jeweller" is hilarious imo

And at one a.m. he awoke from a dream
And after fumbling his way in the obsolescent light of his room
He peered into the rusty veins of his mirror
And lifted away the patch, what he saw astonished him

Where once was tremulous tissue and membrane
Was now a follicle and perfectly formed vagina with vulva
Overgrown and mysterious, unrevealing and still to the untrained eye

I hate when that happens.

Oops yeah, I was skimming & thought he was still talking about DOTV. I'd be quite curious to know how that came about, I've never read anything about the making of artificial intelligence. Cale is a pretty distinctive songwriter, how did he end up handing over lyric duties for an entire album to some random writer guy?

"thoughtless kind" is devastating (on both new society and fragments).

― tylerw, Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:35 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Love the version from the old South Bank Show Velvets doc - the T-Shirt, the strange performance style, the ending:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndE-nvwTuoI

Circling back to Honi Soit for a moment...I'm a big fan of "Fighter Pilot" -- I have a soft spot for shouty girls in the bgd. "Wilson Joliet" is pretty great too.

how did he end up handing over lyric duties for an entire album to some random writer guy?

Not just some random writer guy, no less! This dude later co-wrote both of Howard Stern's books, David Blane's book and the Anthony Kiedis memoir, and is old-school pals/peers of Kinky Friedman and Dylan.

http://www.ratso.org/

"thoughtless kind" is devastating (on both new society and fragments).

Uh and then there's "Chinese Envoy". That destroys me every time that song. Even though the words are sort of nonsensical but then he pulled off the same trick on most of "Paris 1919", y'know, managing to make songs that are lyrically obscure and dense yet incredibly emotional.

yeah whenever i read cale's lyrics a lot of them seem pretty impenetrable on the page, but he makes 'em really resonate. i think he's said that since he grew up speaking welsh, he uses english more as a textural thing...

I don't know if he's ever admitted it but I think Eno's songwriting owes a lot to John Cale, or there are a lot of unintended similarities, something like "Half Past France" on this album reminds me a lot of Eno. Oh, and "Cleo" on "Vintage Violence" always reminds me of "Sound and Vision"!

JC talks about performing this album live , among other things, here: http://www.salon.com/2012/10/11/john_cale_every_time_i_hear_that_record_its_like_listening_to_it_through_gauze/

Also reposting live version of "Dying on the VIne" with Ollie Halsall from other John Cale thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et-Gk11mvqM

no I meant DOTV was seamless and did not know it was not by Cale!!

oh also I didn't realize we were talking about a tracks poll, I don't do ballot stuff I'm not up for taking poll participation any further than clickin' buttons

I never liked "Dying On The Vine", it sounded like somebody trying to photocopy every song on Paris 1919 at once

I've never heard that Wyatt Eno Nico Cale live record. Or the other live one, Fragments of a Rainy Season. Any good?

"Fragments" is essential IMO; almost all of his vocal performances on that album equal or surpass the studio versions.

oh yeah? I'll give it a listen this afternoon!