Britpop : Time For Reevaluation?

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This has probably been true for the last 20 years. [/yankophile]

Don't really agree with this either. The nineties were an exceptional time for UK pop music and as far as the more challenging stuff is concerned, the UK has led the way in many other styles up until about five years ago what with Warp Records etc.

the next grozart on Friday, 9 March 2007 13:00 (1 hour ago)

The original quote referred specifically to the indie scene, rather than music in general, so pop music isn't relevant. I wasn't saying there hasn't been both fantastic and challenging music from the UK, of course there has been, but I still feel we don't really compare with the US, BUT that is from the viewpoint of my personal music taste. Maybe I should have said the last 10 years. Certainly I think you have to dig a lot deeper since BritPop to find stuff that doesn't suck. I suppose I blame BritPop for ruining "indie" and haven't forgiven it! I know during the BritPop Years 95-97 I pretty much gave up on UK indie.

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

If it hadn't been for the internet and finding about music from other countries that weren't covered by the uk press, I would've been either stuck in mojo land or out of music completely after exhausting krautrock and "lost classics".

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:17 (nineteen years ago)

Shame we can't add a poll to this thread "Did britpop kill UK Indie?"

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:18 (nineteen years ago)

There are dozens of good artists in the UK who are actually not generic indie, from Patrick Wolf to Electrelane and so on.

zeus

selling absolutely fuck all, even compared to Joanna Newsom, I'd wager?

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:22 (nineteen years ago)

Well, the Patrick Wolf album is actually almost in the Top 40.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:24 (nineteen years ago)

ok, I lose :/

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

current albums sold in the UK outside the top 40, by artists that haven't previously had a top 40 chart album

6 Music chart
http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/shows/chart/chart_page.shtml

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

So was the Joanna Newsom record.

What DJ Martian says above about the Norwegian music scene is equally, if not more so, applicable to the scene in Canada at the moment. How come they manage to be so much more creative than Britain? Probably it's a matter not just of distance, but of the lack of any perceived need for rivalry or coolness and a willingness to experiment without instantly being pinned down by the media.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/shows/chart/chart_page.shtml

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

That Marnie Stern record sounds interesting; I'll definitely be checking that out.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

The marnie stern album is great

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

Thanks for that link, djmartian, that's interesting.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

Re: Canada

I can see a thread in 3 years: 'What happened with the Canadian indie scene?!'

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:37 (nineteen years ago)

There's probably already one

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

The reason the Canadian indie scene is so great is for one reason: THEY FREAKING SUBSIDIZE THE F*CK OUT OF IT. Plus the whole protectionism of Cancon on all media channels

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

So Canadian protectionism is a good thing, but the British protectionism is jingoism? Strange effects.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:21 (nineteen years ago)

Haven't seen the Arts Council sticking their arm out recently. Mind you, when the emblem of decadence in British music in 2007 is the Horrors, can you really blame them?

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:48 (nineteen years ago)

If its not classical it won't get funded, right?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:50 (nineteen years ago)

These Canadians win the worst name award though.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

Either that or it has to come under the nefarious boundaries of "world music" or "community music."

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

Wot, no vernacular music?

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 16:55 (nineteen years ago)

That would mean giving public money to Jack McLaughlin.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:57 (nineteen years ago)

Subsidised indie rock would be worse than NME Carling Rock though I'm sure.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:07 (nineteen years ago)

It would probably sound like Fat Les.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

Canadian indie isn't subsidised for being indie, it's subsidised for being CANADIAN.

That's what you've got to do to keep some kind of national cultural identity when up against the giant cultural monolith next door.

I mean, maybe that's a point. Who are British bands competing with, locally? Breton hip-hop? I don't think so.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:12 (nineteen years ago)

Ireland!

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

There's no Scottish subsidy for jingly jangly bands.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:15 (nineteen years ago)

But it there may well be legislation introduced after the forthcoming elections

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

It would probably sound like Fat Les.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy on Friday, 9 March 2007 17:11 (5 minutes ago)

Fat Les no worse than the horrors.

― Pashmina, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

Keith Allen isn't in The Horrors though.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

I haven't actually heard any music by The Horrors. That's probably in their favour just now. Are they as bad as I imagine?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

"Canadian indie isn't subsidised for being indie, it's subsidised for being CANADIAN."

This is not quite true. For bands like You Say Party We Say Die (horrid name I guess, but quite a good band), the only way they are subsidised would be through increased radio/media exposure via the CRTC broadcast requirements. Most stations have to play 35% Canadian Content. However some stations also have a requirement to play a certain percentage of independent releases. At the station I'm with we have to play (if memory serves) 35% Canadian, 60% independent, 60% releases from the last 6 months and 50% female-related artists (ie. at least one member of the band is a woman).

Other stations have various other playlist requirements, the idea being that EVERYTHING gets some exposure. Culturally specific genres like reggae, merengue and yes, even Brit-pop, generally have different Can-con rules - usually something like 10%.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:42 (nineteen years ago)

The Canadian government also GIVES MONEY AWAY IN THE FORM OF GRANTS so that Canadian bands can tour. I know this is true because I've toured on one of these grants, back when I was in a Canadian pop band.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:43 (nineteen years ago)

Indie on the rates. Henry Root would be horrified.

― Noodle Vague, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:44 (nineteen years ago)

Okay, but generally speaking, those grants are not for new bands such as YSPWSD because you must have specialized training in your field and have to already be recognised as a professional musician by your peers (two of the requirements). It's tricky for a new band to comply with those requirements.

However, my point was that in some ways indie music IS subsidized.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:49 (nineteen years ago)

If it's so tricky to get one, then how the heck did a little tiny indie band like mine manage to get one? (Unless things have changed dramatically in the past 5 years.)

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

By the way, I know Shimura Curves got played on my station a while back, partly because it scored 3 out of 4 of the CRTC requirements.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:52 (nineteen years ago)

Xpost - I'll admit I don't really know what those grants are all about other than what I've heard through the grapevine. I know a couple of people who have been turned down for those reasons I stated. I've never applied for one and don't know that much about it. So, I bow to your superior experience.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

This wasn't Shimura Curves, this was the Lollies - who were totally MAPL by the book despite my passport.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

Oh sure. I'm talking only about 3 or 4 months ago we played Shimura Curves a couple of times. The Fem-con requirement is very new by the way - it only came in about a year ago.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

Kate played in two countries on radio. Next stop THE WORLD!

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:02 (nineteen years ago)

I can't imagine a similar system being implemented in the UK, much though I might think that was a good thing. Though I don't think I would give the money to the arists, but more to keep legendary venues going with Arts Council grants. You look at a super-isolated and yet still historically very vibrant UK indie scene, such as Hull for example - and it's usually down to a venue or a promoter doing everything they can to keep live music alive, not just in terms of local music, but attracting national bands and getting local bands in as support. In Hull that was the Adelphi - bands had a place to play, rehearse, record, half the bands in Hull worked behind the bar at one point or another to pay their rent. Something like that keeps a music scene vibrant on a grass roots level on a way that just giving grants to musicians doesn't.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

Hooray! I am in the elite cadre of ILXors who've played at the Adelphi.

― Noodle Vague, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

x-post, yay! I love Canadian radio!

(Four countries, actually - UK, Germany, Canada and US. Unless Texas counts as a different country...)

The Canadian system, despite its problems, does have a lot to be said for it. But then again, Canadian radio is localised in a way that UK radio is monolithic - the monolithic status of UK radio has some things to be said for it, too, though.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:05 (nineteen years ago)

But having grants available doesn't stop those kind of grassroots/collective scenes from happening. The relative isolation of most Canadian cities usually means there is a very strong and supportive local scene too.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

The female artists rule seems weird tho. I would guestimate that women are in no way under-represented in Pop, at least.

― Noodle Vague, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

(xxxpost, obviously)

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think the female artists rule seems weird at all - though I think it's aimed at redressing the balance in rock rather than pop, which is still overwhelmingly male.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

FYI the fem-con thing has only been taken on by those stations who want to support it as a concept. It's not fully official yet. Seems to work pretty well, though, having lived with it for a year. And I was originally sceptical.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

Agreed about Rock, yes - although why not set all sorts of quotas? - but I assumed that most stations would play some version of Pop and then it all seems a bit pointless. I don't like this protectionist thing anyway tho.

― Noodle Vague, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:14 (nineteen years ago)

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