theo parrish s/d

accepting subjectivity is not a position, it's just existence, logic.

the other ("gatekeeping") position is also subjective. it just uses different tactics and language to describe itself.

i will say this though. a virtuoso ear hears like a gold medal swimmer swims.

the original attempt to search and destroy theo parrish upthread is way more woeful than the recent unrelated discussion, honestly

i will say this though. a virtuoso ear hears like a gold medal swimmer swims.

oh just fucking die

the sooner ilx dance threads get some europeans who actually have a club scene the better, the only "virtuoso ears" I know are the ones on the fucking internet.

^^ i think the above is quite fucking true. if you're denying it, why isn't everybody as good a dj as villalobos or theo parrish? some things are beyond subjectivity.

who says everybody isn't as "good" a dj as them? people here might think villalobos is a shit dj, plenty of people do.

nothing is beyond subjectivity.

who says everybody isn't as "good" a dj as them?

there's nothing to stop you, apart from the fact it's patently absurd. the extent you can take subjectivity seriously does have limits... plenty of people think the daily mail is a great, well written newspaper. it doesn't make them right.

no, saying there is some scientific "good" or "bad" about a cultural product is patently absurd. prove to me the exact unchangeable elements of theo parrish, or of villalobos, or of the daily mail......they don't exist in any fixed state and nobody consumes the same product when they listen/read, even the same person doesn't hear the same record twice.

the meaning of "virtuoso ear" changes with the times and the technology, but the necessity of its existence never goes away.

not everything is discourse.

when did i say there was something scientifically 'good' about them? i'm not trying to force anything down anyone's throat here. i'm glad i can tell the difference between a villalobos set and a mara trax set. i don't think anyone else's existence is particularly impoverished by the fact that they can't, though.

and if you honestly believe the world of music would be the same, and equally enjoyable, with no theo parrish and all benny benassi then more power to you.

when u say that something's beyond subjectivity, you better be prepared to defend it objectively

lol resolved your screen name is appropriate

c-post so what does virtuoso ear mean now? and why does your definition mean more than anyone elses? and why does any definition override any other one? and how is there any meaningful unchangeable definition at all?

x-post resolved, if I did that'd be my opinion, and I'd have a right to it. you're now resorting to "but we all think", yeah well some people don't and I'm never going to say someone else is "wrong" cos it's bullshit.

he sooner ilx dance threads get some europeans who actually have a club scene the better

really, ronan? this makes me want to yank your teeth out.

no, i'm not saying anyone else is 'wrong', ronan. it's dance music. who gives that much of a fuck? all i'm saying is -- i can tell. and i'm sure you can, too.

I can tell what? I can tell my own taste, nothing more nothing less. And my own taste is worth no more than anyone elses.

It's a fucking disgrace that people are arguing against this.

I can tell my own taste, nothing more nothing less.

perhaps you should quit djing then

anyone on this thread who can read minds please reveal the secret

And my own taste is worth no more than anyone elses.

Ronan, you're taking this to such a level that even having one's own taste and championing one's own taste is tantamount to snobbery.

No I'm not. Saying why you like things and championing them is fine.

Thinking somehow one music can be "proven" to be better than another is insane.

ronan got his feelings hurt.

but the only person who's waving this 'proven by science' crap about is you, ronan. all i'm saying is, i wouldn't respect the musical opinion of anyone who failed to see any merit in the djing and selection of theo parrish. they'd be free to ignore my musical opinion, too, but then we're effectively existing in entirely different worlds.

Yes, true. But more complex? More rhythmically interesting? More emotionally stirring? More derivative?

xpost to ronan

Mike lost his feelings circa 2002.

x-post that's not what you're saying resolved, or at least that's not how you began.

Yes, true. But more complex? More rhythmically interesting? More emotionally stirring? More derivative?

all matters of opinion....can't be proven, just expressed.

There are certain aspects of dance tracks that can be qualified objectively, is all I am saying. This does not necessarily make one thing better than the next, it just exposes a difference.

Sorry, you're fucking wrong, dude.

well ronan, i'm not trying to have an argument here, and i'm certainly not angry. only you are. within my world (subjective!!), saying all djs are as good as theo parrish and villalobos is patently absurd. and there are obviously no limits to subjectivity, per se. but there ARE limits to the people whose opinions you choose to even register.

i'm wrong. it is not that the meaning changes, but how it is applied given the current state of technology and music and evolved perception (a prodigal musician probably hears things differently today than his or her counterpart did 100 years ago). i am thinking of studio rats. the engineers everyone wants to do their records because they hear things other people simply don't have the facility to hear.

many xposts.

When you dudes are done fighting can you help me find my feelings on the internet? It seems I lost them somewhere around 2002.

this is weird, you guys are listening to ronan but youre not listening to yourselves

in ronan's world, the doodle i drew while i was talking to my boss on the phone today is just as good as a monet

You take something by Hieroglyphic Being (or whomever) and set it up next to something by Tiesto, any fucking moron who knows shit about notation and rhythm structure is going to hear that Hieroglyphic Being is more rhythmically complex.

hey max, how about you don't bother posting again until you have an actual opinion of your own

Sorry, you're fucking wrong, dude

your argument in a nutshell.

saying all djs are as good as theo parrish and villalobos is patently absurd

what if I think all djs are shit? what if I think every dj is good? what if I've never heard either of them dj? what if I've heard one of them 10 times? what if I hate german minimal? what if I hate all dance music?

I've actually completely lost faith in Ronan as a critic because of this thread. It makes me sad.

YOU;RE NOT EVEN ARGUING ANYTHING!! You're simply posing hypotheticals and baiting us.

ronan: i'm speaking in the context of someone who actually enjoys consuming contemporary, 'underground' dance music. most people don't give a shit about tiesto, let alone theo fucking parrish. stop being ridiculous.

anyway, enough.

When you dudes are done fighting can you help me find my feelings on the internet? It seems I lost them somewhere around 2002.

just search for mike taylor, you were great before becoming the robert van winkle to pipecock's eminem.

x-post to table I came to ILM cos it was full of critics who would argue that anything was good, you never could say something was definitively shit without somebody smart contradicting you. why did you come here? and I am firmly arguing something....I'm showing the ludicrousness of your positions by the vast amount of potential differing opinions.

how can there be facts when there are hundreds of opinions about music?

resolved youre kind of a dick, arent you?

heres what you said:

some things are beyond subjectivity.

-- resolved, Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:26 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

the extent you can take subjectivity seriously does have limits... plenty of people think the daily mail is a great, well written newspaper. it doesn't make them right.

-- resolved, Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:30 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

so, if im reading you right, subjectivity 'has limits'--there are certain statements that are unquestionably factual, such as, for example, "the daily mail is a shitty, poorly-written newspaper." that isnt an 'opinion,' its a fact. it goes beyond subjectivity, making it 'objectively' true. right? im not saying anything that youre not implying in your own posts.

then you go and say this:

when did i say there was something scientifically 'good' about them? i'm not trying to force anything down anyone's throat here.

-- resolved, Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:34 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

and im like, uh, what? if youre going to say that subjectivity has a certain set of limits (and hey, maybe it does!) at least be honest with yourself! if there are objectively true facts, why not try to articulate why theyre true?

how can there be facts when there are hundreds of opinions about music?

That is the problem with your argument, Ronan.

i'm speaking in the context of someone who actually enjoys consuming contemporary, 'underground' dance music

so you're saying people who loosely agree with you loosely agree with you.

x-post table the difference is we have science to prove other facts, but loosely I have no problem with that strikethrough.

if someone can prove to me why one artist is better than another, as in, with an equation or mathematics, with no value judgements, with something that is inarguable and incontrivertible.....then would LOVE to hear this.