Thread for coordinating the order and timing of ILM ballot polls

yeah I think if I do present a master list of noms it'll be alpha. i've been avoiding giving that poll much thought, or even whether I really want to do it, may rethink the concept a bit or cancel it altogether.

sample usage would be a fun one for Steely Dan! we've obviously argued to death about which are the best albums but it might be nice to 'settle' that a bit by having people submit top 5s.

i should have said: besides the side poll for top Steely Dan albums.

Please don't cancel it! I'm really looking forward to it, and I know that somebody would step up to run it if you don't want to. I'd do it, if absolutely nobody else was willing.

Yeah, I'd handle that one gladly.

Side poll: Who is Rikki in "Rikki Don't Lose That Number"?

a) Rickie Lee Jones
b) Rikki Ducornet (college friend of Fagen's)
c) Ricky Nelson
d) Rickie Lee Reynolds (Black Oak Arkansas)
e) Richard Nixon

I've seen all of these theories defended. (Well, okay, the last one only by me.)

Rikki Rockett

problem solved

one of the local classic rock radio stations where I lived did this insane top 2000 countdown at the end of the last millenium. I used to have a printout of the whole shebang but I lost it when I got fired from my job at the time. and now I can't seem to find it on the radio station's website (obv bcz it was 12 years ago)...I might try to dig it up on the wayback machine or maybe even try to email the station. It was crazily in depth (tho even out of 2000 songs, there were only four Sabbath ones ;_;)

Put me down for a Smiths poll then please!

i've been avoiding giving that poll much thought, or even whether I really want to do it, may rethink the concept a bit or cancel it altogether.

haha, totally, you can see why i dropped this one! i think if anyone can do it it's you, but the problems are really obvious and Not Going Away. same with my never-proposed "modern rock radio" poll or w/e after all those great Modern Rock #1's threads. The category is enormous, vague, and punctured through with a few HUGE acts who have their own ballot polls so they just confuse the hell out of everything.

Also, this is really vague and schematic and obviously riddled with exceptions but increasingly lately as I've been trying to make Spotify playlists I'm convinced the Classic Rock Canon actually has at least two and probably three phases - - - #1 something from like '68 to '75 or so (which I'm calling "wooly rock") which is derived in equal measure from, like, CCR and Jefferson Airplane and encompasses any number of rootsy bands with fuzz bass and organs and boogie overtones, lurchy drunken compositions and swampy mixes: Steppenwolf, Foghat, Free, Joe Cocker, early Doobies, Zep, "Spill The Wine," "Spirit in the Sky" and at the poppy end, Three Dog Night in "Shambala"/"Never Been To Spain" mode, etc. By 1975 or so though something else is happening, let's call it "corporate rock," which is epitomized by the kind of clean, clear, but hot guitar tone of Joe Walsh on "Life In The Fast Lane" and Steve Miller Band on their big singles (and in fact he had it years before with the James Gang). The sound is punchier, the recordings are brighter, the fuzz fades away: Cheap Trick, Foreigner, Queen, Frampton, BTO, BOC, and especially Boston. I don't know if this shift is exactly a matter of technology (some kind of new recording gear? arena amps getting better?), The End of the Sixties hangover, new generation of audience, or what, but it really draws a line through the stuff IMO, notwithstanding huge acts like the Who or Elton John who don't really sound like either of these and are really the heirs to the Beatles in terms of pop-rock being a thing in itself.

These musics don't really sound a lot alike, actually, but lumped all together they made up the "classic rock" playlists I grew up with; they all sounded like rock and I didn't realize that, like, Boston and Steppenwolf are really different kinds of music! With that in mind, it's kind of hard to dismiss - though I'm tempted to - all the more 'digital' and/or new-wave-influenced stuff post '80, '82 or so, that doesn't sound like any of that stuff and definitely was not "classic rock" in the 90s despite often being the same people: latter-day Loggins, Collins, Money, Kihn, Frey, Winwood, Geils, etc. Not to mention the original 60s bluesy pop-rock stuff that gave rise to all of this - where exactly is the line? Nowadays "classic rock" stations have, like, Def Leppard on them! What a mess.

None of that should be taken to discourage doing the poll - I just really don't know how it would get bracketed.

i'm drunk btw

def phases to classic rock but it's still part of one ~lifespan~

midwestern classic rock station playlists show that there's still a classic rock canon, & the one we know & love, even if they occasionally slip a Nirvana or Alice in Chains song in there nowadays

at this rate, i think mid-August is looking likely for Roxy Music? hard to ascertain with these kind of things, but that kind of timeframe would probably be ideal.

one of the reasons I was on the fence about the classic rock tracks poll is that 'completely arbitrary selection of 70s rock tracks poll' thing just happened a few months ago. i never looked at the results til just now because that whole thing seemed obnoxiously complicated to me, but seeing now, obviously most of the list is not classic rock radio staples but the stuff in there that is feels a little like a spoiler for how my poll would turn out:

Rolling Stone Eat Your Heart Out: The Greatest Rawk Trax of the 1970s ILM/ILX Poll RESULTS

fwiw I made a made not to even open those threads b/c they looked annoying so you might have an audience that's much different

made a POINT dammit

at the very least, when i do it i will probably let at least one or two single-artist polls cut in line in front of me, just so i'm not overlapping with or right on the heels of the big disco/stax polls.

Me too xp. So it'll be completely new to me.

I think letting a few people cut in is a good plan - feels like we've a bit of a glut coming up.

Re DC's long post: '75 is a good cut-off for phase #1. The classic-rock station here has something called "Psychedelic Sundays" that they're been doing for years, and their window on that is '65-'75. I think they probably start a little too early--'65/66 is something else in my mind, and the album doesn't really become the center of the universe until '67 (not saying there weren't lots of great ones beforehand). I'd chop everything up into three phases: 1) '67-70 (Beatles still around), 2) '71-75 (all the stuff like glam and metal and singer-songwriter that moves in after them), 3) '76-The Wall/In Through the Out Door/The Long Run (all the people you mention; the Frampton/Boston/Ronco years). Nothing's precise, and a million exceptions of course.

I am intrigued & excited by Classic Rawk poll. Let's all make a pact to tighten our jeans & drive Camaros by then

http://justcomedies.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/600full-dazed-and-confused-screenshot.jpg

Re DC's long post: '75 is a good cut-off for phase #1. The classic-rock station here has something called "Psychedelic Sundays" that they're been doing for years, and their window on that is '65-'75. I think they probably start a little too early--'65/66 is something else in my mind, and the album doesn't really become the center of the universe until '67 (not saying there weren't lots of great ones beforehand). I'd chop everything up into three phases: 1) '67-70 (Beatles still around), 2) '71-75 (all the stuff like glam and metal and singer-songwriter that moves in after them), 3) '76-The Wall/In Through the Out Door/The Long Run (all the people you mention; the Frampton/Boston/Ronco years). Nothing's precise, and a million exceptions of course.

― clemenza, Thursday, July 4, 2013 8:53 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's sort of how Sirius/XM does it. They have the "Classic Vinyl" station that covers '64 (Beatles arrive in US) to somewhere in the 75-77 axis (not sure where the demarcation point is, other than it probably coincides with rise of blockbuster albums like Rumours, Hotel California & Boston). Then they have the "Classic Rewind" station that starts in the late '70s and goes up through the '90s when big acts like Aerosmith, ZZ Top, Tom Petty etc... stopped having hits on Mainstream Rock Radio. On top of that there is also a "Deep Cuts" channel which is as adevertised--album cuts, flop singles, live stuff & new material from vets.

an all-genre deep cuts poll would be great, but likely a victim of its own concept - I can imagine a countdown of six hundred unrelated tracks all picking up one vote each

nw "Traveling Riverside Blues" will walk it, the deepest cut

Carnival of Light ftw

BARCELONA!

i think my original hope w/ that 70s rawk poll was classic rock would hold its own w/ punk and more freaky stuff but that didn't happen (actually my original dream was that aor would hold its own w/ punk but that dream didn't even make it past the nominations stage), think a classic rock poll would be far from redundant. think you'd want to go an objective outside source (really that radio excel file you sent back plus maybe some more data from radio, i can't remember how much was on that excel file though, if it was 200 tracks that's probably enough i guess, bemoaning the lack of choices is a key part of the classic rock radio experience imo). hope some new wave ringer doesn't consolidate the indie fuxxor vote and take it, god help us if talking heads wins the classic rock poll.

I think as a radio format, "classic rock" is delineated clearly enough that it doesn't include New Wave...? At least I hope that's the case.

I've been hearing the Cars and Police on classic rock stations as long as I've been hearing those stations (i.e. since childhood).

WELL THEY STILL DONT COUNT

:)

The station I grew up with played the Police, Romantics, U2, and Talking Heads this morning + new wave tracks by Rush, Yes, and Genesis (http://www.chez106.com/on-air/playlists-charts/#). Harder to find Jefferson Airplane and Cream by now, probably.

"burning down the house" is as classic rock as talking heads gets, is that gonna place high because of corny turnout?

also interested to see if britishers play along since i know classic rock through a USA filter & dunno what if any uk filter there is...though lots of classic rock bands were Brits we never had status quo or Slade as mainstays

The format doesn't exist in the UK afaik?

man i'd love to read a piece on the evolution of classic rock radio (the only thing i can even remember ever reading about it at all was a thing in spin in the mid-90s and it was more 'a day in the life' w/ a few facts revealed - kansas bigger than the stones, etc), would imagine it was totally a reaction to new wave and (esp) disco owning radio for a few years there (imagine pop's domination of radio now squared). i know that by the time i was aware of and listening to classic rock radio it felt like old hat, 'dust in the wind', 'stairway', etc all cliches already (and not just as songs but specifically as classic rock radio cornerstones). i'm thinking a station similar to kroq circa 1980, only w/ the classic rock to new wave ratio reversed, that instead of plowing onward into the future decides to sharply reverse course (which in most of the country outside of southern cal would've definitely been the more profitable course). the playlist has evolved also, esp in recent years; for the longest time it started in 67 w/ doors/hendrix/cream/etc w/ a few harder tracks before it maybe getting in - stones, kinks - and then extended up to 81/82 w/ the last gasps from the dinosaurs, the peaks of the aor acts, and some token new wave gestures - some police, some cars, a few talking heads, a couple of pretenders. and then starting in may the last five years the sixties has been almost completely discarded and the playlist has expanded into the late 80s more - bon jovi esp (fitting since they were so often one part springsteen five parts journey/foreigner/etc) and guns n roses as well. if some dude told me that pearl jam were starting to make a heavy dent in classic rock radio now i'd totally believe him, if they haven't yet they will soon obviously.

i have no beef with the talking heads but if you pointyheaded bloody chinscratchers find a way to include them in the classic rock pollI will burn the whole thing down

some dude, I'm counting on you

We have a local station fed by Dial Global (something I had to dig to find out -- their bland anonymity is a key part of the package) -- it switched from "Classic Rock" to "Classic Hits" a few years ago, the difference being more disco and most of the tamer New Wave. Sixties singles down to 5% or so, probably. Interestingly, their "Classic Rock" page says that the playlist extends into the 90s and includes U2, which is a little surprising.

man i'd love to read a piece on the evolution of classic rock radio

Seconded. On the Bon Jovi tip, seems pretty clear that the 90s/00s band who will make the biggest impact in the future of Classic Rock will be the Foo Fighters, who pretty much dived headfirst into the 70s after the debut. Alternately, maybe the "heavy" wing - the side that keeps "Iron Man" in rotation - will find room for Soundgarden. I shudder to imagine the day that Staind, Hoobastank, et al., get their own radio format for the songs that rocked you through the millenium etc.

ok just found that most played classic rock spreadsheet he sent me and it's totally got enough tracks (500), 'wanted (WANTEEEED!) dead or alive' and 'sweet child o mine' are at 25-26, and 'burning down the house' is just ahead of 'hair of the dog', 'cat scratch fever', and 'foxy lady'.

I think I'll be pretty inclusive of new wave era stuff, but centered on the handful of songs from the Cars or Police or whoever that you actually hear -- maybe a couple Heads songs? things that are equally likely to be on 'flashback lunch breaks' on alternarock stations might be worth excluding. stations now are starting to be more and more welcoming of late '80s stuff but i might set some kind of chronological cutoff point, like before Appetite For Destruction, or The Joshua Tree.

i don't think i've heard Pearl Jam yet on classic rock radio. but "Smells Like Teen Spirit," yes.

btw, these are REALLY skeletal, badly-delineated, and hole-ridden right now but spotify playlists, suggestions welcome:

WOOLY ROCK: http://open.spotify.com/user/doctorcasino/playlist/129xjvBaWLxCsGnhn8HMd3
CORPORATE ROCK: spotify:user:doctorcasino:playlist:2P1NcRZBeRwPk74MEbWWWH
SMOOTH AM GOLD: http://open.spotify.com/user/doctorcasino/playlist/6WzifvQ5j3RMO9gB1iTs12

Incidentally, it's safe to say these are three of the whitest imaginary radio formats possible.

second should be: http://open.spotify.com/user/doctorcasino/playlist/2P1NcRZBeRwPk74MEbWWWH

One thing that's always amused me about classic-rock radio (the station here, anyway) is how they'll play "Miss You" and "I Was Made for Lovin' You" and "Under Pressure" and "Another Brick in the Wall" while continuing, seemingly oblivious to the irony (and long past the point where they ought to know better), to deride disco as everything that was bad about the '70s.

oh man, just remembered to go back through the balls/AG nomination playlist for ideas

ok yeah 'alive' is lurking near the bottom of this thing (which is the 500 most played tracks on classic rock radio in 2011 so i'd only imagine more stations have made the leap into the 90s since then), as are 'smells like teen spirit', 'come as you are', 'man in the box', and o hi dere 'plush'. there's eight u2 tracks on this thing. by comparison ten eagles tracks. ccr - six tracks, motley crue - five. at some point 'take me to the river' slipped off as well.

i think if we do nominations we're gonna end up w/ something that pretends david bowie and neil young are bigger than .38 special and kansas. think bypassing nominations and just going w/ industry source would save work, be more accurate, avoid whining. also ppl bitching that the list kinda sucks or is boring or doesn't have alot of huge obvious rrhof type stuff that how the fuck is this not on there etc would sorta be fitting also - this is basically the classic rock format in a nutshell.

I always thought this poll was going to be based off of an industry playlist, so the idea of nominations is completely new to me.

Yeah, I basically agree in principle - what I always imagined was "poll of the 500 classic rock songs everybody knows" with less emphasis on deep cuts and the maybe more hipster-kissed music that also thrived in the 70s. Trick would be finding the industry list that actually nails it - in a dreamworld it'd be some kind of computer-aggregated list of the classic-rock-airplay top 500 lists since the format was introduced or something.

i'm definitely not going to make it a fully open nominations process -- will probably lay out that 500, subtracting songs that totally don't fit by some chronological or other criteria, and adding additional songs by the same acts that really deserve to be included, but then encouraging suggestions and opening up discussion and then making the final call myself.

ideally, if i found a longer list, of 1000-plus, i'd go with that. 500 just seems possibly too restrictive -- there are a LOT of things i'd consider staples (or were staples 10-20 years ago) that are just not on there, often the 6th or 7th biggest song by an act that only has 5 songs in the top 500 or something.

as much as i can sympathize w/ setting a cutoff point for this cuz man do i rmde when i hear 'mysterious ways' on classic rock radio (which admittedly doesn't provoke nearly the outrage and existential dread that hearing 'like a prayer' on oldies radio does), i think ultimately you shouldn't cuz time marches on and death waits for us all. all we are is dust in the wind.