The Doors: Classic or Dud?

I saw The World of Jacques Demy last night--some footage of Morrison visiting the Donkey Skin set. (YouTube clips blocked, but this seems to work.)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb2poa_jim-morrison-tres-court-a-regarder_music

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeyHAEVCEAA6e3k.png

http://i.imgur.com/8Mt7Bv2.jpg

what the

dudes trying to look like Jimbo will never not be funny

The Door(k)s

secret heroes of rock music: all the session dudes who played bass on the doors records, they had a lot of sweet basslines

classic beyond words

I know no one cares about them anymore, but Other Voices, at least the parts without vocals, is actually pretty good.

I once admitted to liking (not loving) both post-Morrison Doors LPs on an ILX thread.

they are not a great band but I always have time for them. la woman (the song) is a masterpiece too

The Doors rule, time for a Doors renaissance.
I really want the Strange Days mono for RSD

Robbie Krieger is the most underrated guitarist of 60s rock, either him or Jorma from Airplane

they are not a great band but...

Yeah, I would argue this. Lots of ILM hate, and they're often pretentious, or goofy, or both at the same time (The Doors, not ILM) but they had a unique and immediately identifiable sound.

the Matrix 1967 shows are really exciting...before all the craziness, when they were just starting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqjaPNVXfYM

my dad saw em in LA pretty early on, and he said they were a seriously exciting live band, and that the records didn't quite get that across.

i'm super into the doors lately and i dunno if you kind of approach them with a sense of humor and the ridiculousness of the whole thing, they are pretty amazing

i love lots of things about them, they are so L.A., a real sleazy form of very LA psych that's very 60s but very non-hippie, violent etc

yeah i almost think of them in the same way as black flag, kinda south bay beach scuzz

that matrix show is nice because it shows them before the "bloated lounge act" accusations that they still suffer today took over

tbf some of that bloated lounge act stuff they did is awesome and enduring imo

eg la woman

sibalibagubbaboudanowaago

is my favorite moment of their catalog

also Densmore and the host of amazing session dudes who played on the albums are one of the great rhythm sections

They have plenty of fans on ILM btw.

I love it all! I just tire of all the stale old jokes...if they were good enough for Iggy and the Bunnymen, they're good enough for me!

i saw an interview with Johnny Ramone once and he said they were the only American band of the 60s he thought was any good

also it's kinda funny how Led Zeppelin is (rightfully so) at a real high point of general esteem as a great band, but the Doors are somehow viewed as turgid or overwrought or rambling or saddled with bad adolescent poetry and it's like I LOVE zep but i don't see how they are much above the doors in those departments....or a singer who may be a "bit much" at times

^^^ yes, though Zep does get some gentle ribbing here for their more OOT aspects.

Doors records generally don't sound as good as Zep's tbh

Not sure what you mean there? If you mean production, then I think the Doors' albums are pretty splendid.

yeah the doors records always sound better (production-wise) than most of the west coast 60s bands, to my ears.

when asked why they don't like an act, people have a tendency to list qualities that aren't actually dealbreakers in other contexts, so yeah, on that front it's unfair for a led zep fan to say the doors are some rambling band with bad teenage lyrics. but it's like comparing a lava lamp to a laser show - yes, both are just shiny lights but one is far more likely to knock you on your ass.

also the difference in importance placed on lyrics in the doors vs led zep is pretty extreme

I've never marveled at the engineering on a Doors record. Doors records aren't recorded poorly (although sometimes poor arrangement decisions were made), but I've never been struck by any odd details or unusual approaches the way I have been with Zep's catalog. Page's studio-rat nature really comes through in those recordings, and the Doors didn't have anyone similar (afaik) in their camp. Don't think the rhythm section comes close to Zep's either but that's more of a personal taste thing.

xp

The Doors: two great albums (the debut and L.A. Woman), one very good album (Morrison Hotel), maybe four or five good songs scattered among the other three albums (with Morrison - I've never heard the post-Morrison records).

Led Zeppelin: three-and-a-half great albums (I, II, IV, the first disc of Physical Graffiti), one really good album with a wad of indigestible crap on each side (Houses of the Holy), at least a full album's worth of great songs scattered among the rest of the catalog.

xp i dunno, it's bruce botnick who engineered all those door records i think - they're definitely great sounding, if not as adventurous/innovative as LZ.

yeah I think the Doors records sound great, plus you're also largely comparing a 60s band and a 70s band (w/some overlap) so there's just some basic recording differences...

I didn't want this to turn into Doors v. Zeppelin, just saying it's funny how perception works....I think Zep is a better band on the whole but I dunno the more I listen to the Doors the more I like them. very musical band, very cool players...

I also think Strange Days is a great album to add to the debut and LA Woman, also think that Waiting for the Sun is a good, solid album and honestly I kinda dig the ludicriousness of Soft Parade in a way

full confession - for some reason Soft Parade is the only one of these I have on vinyl. my wife has some old CDs but I can't remember which ones

the concert which really convinced me that this band had something special about them is the live at the hollywood bowl 1968. morrison seems to be in trance most of the time, occasionally he bursts out in unexpected screams. it starts with a long, awesome version of "when the music's over" which almost enters free jazz territory at the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJEL6b9Z78w

I like all the Jimbo albums tbh.

And, yes, not wanting to further the Doors v. Zep thing, but I have never paid any attention at all to Robert Plant's lyrics whereas Jim's have a way of jumping out at you all unexpected like. Shit poetry but as lyrics by some rock guy I can certainly live with 'em.

Other Voices and Full Circle (the post-Morrison albums) to be reissued by Rhino in September. Separately on vinyl, paired as a 2CD set.

I hope potential buyers who are unfamiliar with the LPs aren't discouraged by the one cut that's linked there. That was left off Full Circle for a reason (ouch!).

#strangedaysmono

ok over the past couple weeks I have made a concerted effort to "get into" the Doors - I dl'd all the studio albums and listened to them in order, re-playing certain things that caught my ear etc. After all that, I dunno if my opinion has really changed all that much. They occasionally hit on great grooves/riffs, and Morrison's louche swagger and goofy humor is intermittently entertaining, primarily when he isn't trying too hard or is trying to be profound. On the whole they come across as a band that were blissfully unaware of their limits and/or did not genuinely know what they were good at. Morrison's poet-schtick is inherently juvenile/childish (putting over an oedipal complex as a deep statement literally so) so it works more when he's having fun with it and running with dumb as fuck rhyme schemes in the service of leering sexuality - I mean how can anybody really take it seriously. Krieger is a great guitarist, I feel like he really carries the band in a lot of cases, and when he fuzz-rocks out he is v good. Manzarek though, ugh, so many circus-organ type parts and just stiff as fuck - for a guy that was purportedly into "jazz" he sure had no idea how to swing. He's better when he's off the organ and on piano, to my ears. Densmore's okay, he sure likes that trick of switching between 4/4 and latin rhythms, but I feel he had kind of a thankless task trying to provide some oomph and backbeat without having a consistent, good partner in the bass department.

The best album: Waiting for the Sun. It just *sounds* the best, and has the most consistent set of songs. It seems like they maybe hampered themselves in the studio by minimizing overdubs (there are a LOT of tracks where it seems like the only additional stuff they added were an extra vocal track or a doubled guitar line), perhaps in an effort to showcase their live musicianship - but Zeppelin these guys are not, they just aren't as good musicians, and they aren't as inventive in the studio. They do come off to me as a precedent for Zep (has Page or Plant ever copped to this?) just in the 4-guys-doing-epic-blues-rock department which they often dabbled in - the long songs with multiple shifts, the focus on clean, clear recordings of the players, obviously the shirtless rock sex poet angle...

Weirdly I did not really discover any deep cuts/stuff I hadn't noticed before that I really liked. Seems like the hits were hits for a reason, and the other album cuts I liked were ones I've always liked (hello Peace Frog)

Good point on the proto-Zep blues rock thing and the focus on live but weak musicianship, I think they really bought into some rockist authenticity that took away from the stuff that really made them weird and unique. I always thought they should have pushed the psychedelic stuff and was disappointed when after the weirdness of The Soft Parade they retreated into 12-bar for the last couple of records. Seems like most of the final albums were written in live jams where Jim was just blasted and making stuff up while they improvised blues rock underneath it. Nothing as melodically mystifying as "Crystal Ship" or sonically mesmerizing as "Strange Days". Maybe it was an conscious effort to get commercial, and hey, maybe it worked. "L.A. Woman" and "Riders on the Storm" both classic rock radio staples for the ages probably paid more in royalties than any of the stranger stuff.

I imagine if The Doors were started today they would be Lovecraft nerds/Steampunks.

Soft Parade *is* weird but it doesn't really work (most of the time), whether its the orchestration just parroting the vocal melody, or inserting inappropriate banjo breakdowns. I'm not sure if it's before or after "Forever Changes" but that seems like an obvious reference point, albeit a much better one.

Seems like most of the final albums were written in live jams where Jim was just blasted and making stuff up while they improvised blues rock underneath it

this is true although when it works I think it works really well. when it doesn't it's just kind of stiff and odd.

Densmore's okay, he sure likes that trick of switching between 4/4 and latin rhythms, but I feel he had kind of a thankless task trying to provide some oomph and backbeat without having a consistent, good partner in the bass department.

Densmore might be my favorite part of the band, I love the way, esp live, he follows Morrison and will accent words & phrases.

Say what you will about them, they always went for it, for better & worse

#mono