TOP 10 NOW: \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\shawty got poll poll poll poll poll poll poll (part II: 2008 ALBUMS)/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

"better record" for me obv. I group those records together as four records that have all had a similar "big statement" impact on indie critical consensus, and all done very well by it. But I can discern, using subjective and idiosyncratic critical measures, large differences between them qualitatively. I was making what I thought was a fairly obvious point in response to louis' implication that such records have zero meaning or value beyond their "bigness".

Same point re The Knife and MPP - if there is a common thread between these two albums ("bigness"???) it's too vague and diffuse to say anything that final or definitive about their quality.

Basically I think we should critique critical consensus but remember that consensus is something that happens around records.

surprised by this

What would you argue is the narrative?

gotcha about the quality thing. your phrasing seemed to suggest some kind of "objective criteria" -based determination, but maybe just to me.

anyway, lots of related narratives have been discussed in this thread (and recently on ILX). retreat from/depletion of extremity, the depoliticalization of "independence", p-fork influence & cultural homogeneity, the way the mainstreaming of non-musical "indie culture" has fed back into music, assimilation of electronic & dance musics, transmutation of many different strains of niche music into a broad palette of digitally-enhanced pop. i don't wanna waste time unpacking and linking, cuz this all seems like the CW.

Yeah but those are very diffuse longterm developments. I was thinking more in terms of quite tight "models" being put forward in each area.

I guess you could say widescreen hippie sensibilities in indie and glammed up day-glo in pop, but these strike me as less firm and total than the critical consensus positions in, say, 2001/2002 ("back to basics" rock for indie, and the total annexation of pop by futurist (or "futurist") R&B/hip hop for pop).

There's not really a strong narrative that defines (the critical reception of) either pop or indie right now, I don't think.

This happened at the end of the 90s as well. Maybe it's the way tastemaking consciously arranges itself around decade-long narratives these days, but there's definitely been either a recent breakdown of dominant trends (lol haircut indie) or a slow journey from faddish-but-influential sidelines to the mainstream (development of 'electro' from 2002 to 2009). But that process breaks down the critical consensuses that have been fallen back on for the past few years, and they take time to rearrange themselves around something new. Everything feels a bit schizophrenic at the moment but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Yeah I agree. I think the current "models" I tentatively proposed above are broad enough to let a lot of different stuff in, both good and bad.

well, it got beat to death, and is snotty besides, but electrodribble. that's my take on now indie, and what we'll be hearing/talking about during 2009. MPP and that YYYs song being examples, along with lots of stuff on this thread. intersection between m.o.r. dance stuff, indie rockers experimenting with electronic textures, "futurist" R&B/hip-hop, and hippie head candy built on laptops. none of which is new, but the trends meet up nicely, sound good together, and seem to be pushing most other stuff out to the margins.

I sort of agree with you - I think the UK consensus at least has drifted from fairly rigid tribalism (around 2001-2003 in particular) to a point where rock, dance and various other points around them (hip-hop/pop/grime/whatever) overlap far more and that sense of suspicion has evaporated somewhat, if it ever existed. Much of this is to do with generations of artists growing up around one another, becoming more used to each other's music, and sparking off one another.

I'd say this crossover probably really hit in 2007, but it's much harder to see prevailing critical narratives in the period immediately after that point, up until a new generation comes along to blow it away. That's partly why this list looks like a mishmash of genre picks and hardy perennials - there are relatively few of the kind of hugely prominent *new* acts that would have dominated both the albums and singles polls nearer the start of the decade.

oh, and all the stuff i mentioned above fit together very well (if unexpectedly) with quiet, closely miked, semi-acoustic semi-folky indie stuff. sharpness of detail, clarity of tone, spaciousness, attention to silences, prominence of individual vocal/melodic elements, low-key psyche leanings, etc.

hai guys so did Beach House not even get nommed? Didn't see them on any of the final lists.

also:

ha i personally accounted for more than half of marnie stern's points

― paper plans (tipsy mothra), Monday, February 16, 2009 5:07 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

I sincerely hope that GGD/Marnie Stern tour came to your hood last year because that was easily the best show I saw in 08.

Gang Gang Dance are part of this convergence aren't they, but you can't really stick 'em in the dribbly bucket. Maybe there's too much chaos in their music, their sound seems to spiral out in all directions at once from a centre that you can't quite locate. I'm still at a loss as to how to define quite what they do. Maybe we'll get a bunch of stuff that follows in their wake, hopefully those won't just be dilutions though.

x-post

problem w/ "electrodribble" is that it's so contemptuous-sounding. so maybe there's a temptation to exclude stuff one actually likes. but ideally, the term is value-neutral (lightly mocking at worst). thing is, from where i stand, GGD are a fine example. wilder and weirder than most, so not of the center, but helping to define it by populating the fringes.

i think "noise" has the potential to become the next "alternative," "indie" or "emo," in the sense of a somewhat vague modifier that sounds hip and could come to signify commercial music that doesn't have a lot to do with its original usage. you already see this in a lot of record reviews, people throwing around "noise" to mean all sorts of things, but i could easily see it making the leap to yr average 14-yr-old, with the right band to sell it. among other things, it's an adjective perfectly suited to irritate parents.

― paper plans (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:57 PM (Yesterday)

Last year I saw Fuck Buttons, No Age, High Places and Gang Gang Dance all described as noise, which seemed pretty bizarre. Noise is such a perfect signifier, the purity of it. But it's meaning is being eroded by its cachet as making things sound experimental or difficult or whatever.

^ i think this trend has already begun to wane - interest in "noise" (both as a music & as an interestingness signifier) peaked a couple years back

In an ideal world, I would actually WANT people to critically engage with MPP, to the extent at which their critical/popular reputation is forgotten, and the music itself is judged on a personal level. Obviously, this is extremely hard to do, and I would certainly have in mind their popularity, their projected motives for releasing such a record, their supposed achievements in mind when judging the album; it's natural. I can only hope that I'll be able to listen to the record in a frame of mind receptive to its qualities, good or bad. When I first heard it, I'll admit that thanks to my LCD Soundsystem/TVOTR-inspired inhibitions, I was loaded against it. It did little to sway me then, but I won't refrain from giving it more tries. It just seemed to me like a record in thrall to its own massy tones, and hence reticent to actually forge a definitive path, to fight for its own worthiness. As I say, this could change. I'm quite drunk.

GGD are NOT noise, they're actually almost genreless, I'd say, which makes them appeal to me, that they could have carved such a defining and narratively coherent statement as their album was without adhering to obvious tenets.

I sincerely hope that GGD/Marnie Stern tour came to your hood last year because that was easily the best show I saw in 08.

it did, and yes it was.

I'm actually at the stage of drunkenness where I want to agree with everybody and embrace all the music. *loads Spotify*

It just seemed to me like a record in thrall to its own massy tones, and hence reticent to actually forge a definitive path, to fight for its own worthiness. As I say, this could change. I'm quite drunk.

i like it when the ends clarify the beginnings

^ i think this trend has already begun to wane - interest in "noise" (both as a music & as an interestingness signifier) peaked a couple years back

― contenderizer, Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:39 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

I felt the opposite, like it gained a lot of momentum in a way completely divorced from what could be classified as noise in the more traditional sense.

this may be so, i dunno. that's not the feeling i get, but maybe i'm too far removed from ground zero (being old, etc). if so, nu-noize is more about surprising and intriguing textures in a nonconfrontational context.

I'd be seriously interested to hear what noise fans thought thee best noise record of the year was.

― Frank Sumatra (NickB)

Okay, I'm quite obviously not the right person to answer this -- I only dabble on the fringes of the "noise" genre, and enjoy the crossover (i.e., inauthentic) stuff the most. Nonetheless, here's what I liked this year that had some/partial noise elements to it:

Boris and Michio Kurihara - Cloud Chamber
Carlos Giffoni - Adult Life
Excepter - Debt Dept.
Fuck Buttons - Street Horrrsing
Kawabata Makoto and Michishita Shinsuke - Basement Echo
Patti Smith and Kevin Shields - The Coral Sea
Merzbow - Dolphin Sonar
Prurient - And Still, Wanting
Sonic Youth, Mats Gustafsson and Merzbow - SYR 8: Andre Sider Af Sonic Youth
Thurston Moore - Sensitive/Lethal
Tim Hecker and Aidan Baker - Fantasma Parastasie
Tom Carter - Shots at Infinity 1
Yellow Swans - Deterioration

Has anyone posted a concise version of the top 50 list yet?

yes

Danke schon!

Da mods should post it at the top of the tread maybe.

Thanks for the noise list ilxor, have not been paying attention to that side of things at all of late. Still not heard Yellow Swans yet.

I saw them for their last ever gig in Barcelona, was pretty amazing, I could feel my diaphragm vibrate I think.

Maybe you should think about taking it out before noise gigs?

lol

This list, Spotified where available (sorry non-Europeans!)

01 - Portishead - Third
02 - Hercules & Love Affair - Hercules & Love Affair
03 - Lindstrom - Where You Go I Go Too
04 - Gang Gang Dance - Saint Dymphna
05 - Vampire Weekend - Vampire Weekend
06 - Erykah Badu - New Amerykah Part One (4th World War)
07 - Cut Copy - In Ghost Colours
08 - Air France - No Way Down
09 - Lil Wayne - Tha Carter III
10 - TV on the Radio - Dear Science
11 - Bug, The - London Zoo
12 - Young Jeezy - The Recession
13 - M83 - Saturdays=Youth
14 - Kanye West - 808s & Heartbreak
15 - Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes
16 - The-Dream - Love/Hate
17 - Santogold - Santogold
18 - Kelley Polar - I Need You To Hold On While The Sky Is Falling
19 - Studio - Yearbook 2
20 - MGMT - Oracular Spectacular
21 - Deerhunter - Microcastle
22 - Crystal Castles - Crystal Castles
23 - Elbow - The Seldom Seen Kid
24 - Grouper - Dragging A Dead Deer Up A Hill
25 - Los Campesinos! - Hold On Now, Youngster
26 - Torche – Meanderthal
27 - Ne-Yo - Year Of The Gentleman
28 - Fennesz - Black Sea
29 - Lau Nau – Nukkuu
30 - Quiet Village - Silent Movie
31 - El Guincho – Alegranza
32 - Luomo – Convivial (instrumental version)
33 - Earth - The Bees Made Honey In The Lion's Skull
34 - Max Tundra - Parallax Error Beheads You
35 - Half Man Half Biscuit - CSI: Ambleside
36 - Glass Candy - B/E/A/T/B/O/X
37 - Gas - Nah und Fern
38 - D. Lissvik - 7 Trx + Intermission
39 - Hold Steady, The - Stay Positive
40 - Paavoharju - Laulu Laakson Kukista
41 - Solange - Sol Angel & The Hadley Street Dreams
42 - Stephen Malkmus and Jicks - Real Emotional Trash
43 - Alex Moulton – Exodus
44 - Jay Reatard - Matador Singles 08
45 - Girl Talk - Feed The Animals
46 - Fall, The - Imperial Wax Solvent
47 - Sébastien Tellier – Sexuality
48 - School Of Seven Bells – Alpinisms
49 - Arthur Russell - Love Is Overtaking Me
50 - Boris – Smile

My favorite CC track:

Yes "So Haunted" is amazing.

Hardly any chat on the winner. Ppl only interested in kanye and erykah?

People talked Portishead to death months ago.

Which is okay because in some ways they work better as heartless, brain-munching zombies.

and kanye and erykah werent talked to death last year?

why are you singling them out over Gang Gang Dance and Vampire Weekend who have been talked about on this thread just as much?

Who cares???

kanye got way more talk before it came on the list. when it appeared. After it appeared.
What quite are you trying to imply blueski?

Portishead don't have an easily-accessible persona, ergo this board isn't going to spend all that much time rehashing them.

I mean seriously, which things are the ppl on this board more likely to talk about:

a) megalomaniacal superstar spends an entire album whining about his ex
b) megalomaniacal crazy woman hippie-vomits one of the most bizarrely-compelling albums of the decade
c) repressed band makes chilly, emotionally severe album that is a celebration of music production and song arrangement

sounds real good tho

Absolutely! But considering that music discussion here is driven by narrative rather than analysis, there's only so much ppl are going to say about Third, whereas you can talk about 808s... and New Amerykah... forever.

I'm most likely to talk about c) tbh, but then I'm certified insane

i'll talk about them all because i love them all

http://www.obb1.com/images/EasyLife_04-11-08.jpg

ok everyone lol @ me etc, but i slept on that portishead record all year, and it's fucking me up something fierce right now

silly kevin

*points finger, lols*

*points finger, lols*

I would like it if the people who hadn't heard many of the "obscure" picks of 50-21 would check them out.
I'd like to hear that Alex Moulton. Every link I find online has expired/been taken down.

― The User Formerly Known As Pfunkboy Latterly Known as.. (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, February 13, 2009 8:38 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

maybe buy it?

lol u old

srsly

u can buy mp3s u goofs