Armond White:"Can Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop?"

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That would be the pot calling the kettle black.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

true true

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)

usually Armond White is frothing at the mouth with racist conspiracies than ILM, shame he handled this one with kid gloves.

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

with *more* racist etc, that should've said

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I was damning with faint praise, Raggett! the article is hilarious.

Just checking. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The Kanye video isn't just T&A. And I'm pretty sure Jay never raps "let me reintroduce myself"

he does rap it, but it's "allow me to" and it's in the second interlude/psa. i haven't seen the 99 problems video yet; but i know at least parts of this interlude were mixed into the dirt off my shoulder video so i guess anything's possible.

― andrew s (andrew s), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I read this thread as "Can, Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop." Heh.

― Laszlo Kovacs (Laszlo Kovacs), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.furious.com/perfect/graphics/can1.jpg
gerades outta Deutschland

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Lights in the city went dark, then all the ghetto folk began to glow like images in a thermal x-ray. Their phosphorescence symbolized life-force, a misunderstood (often misrepresented) energy.

I wonder if Hova lectured the director about the importance of misunderstood life-force during the filming of "Dirt Off Your Shoulder."

― Erick (Imbroglio), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:58 (twenty-two years ago)

he actually can be an ok movie critic sometimes, i have to admit

― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 06:42 (twenty-two years ago)

haha when?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 07:44 (twenty-two years ago)

He may be over the top and largely wrong, but you have to admit that's a well written piece.

― djdee2005, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 07:56 (twenty-two years ago)

he's made such an exercise of wringing every bit of MEANING out of "99 problems" (and "dirt off your shoulder", sheesh), you'd think he'd have more trouble dismissing every other bit of hiphop that doesn't see the music video as a minor branch of independant cinema.

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:25 (twenty-two years ago)

over the top + largely wrong = not well written (unless you mean "he wrote complete sentences and punctuated them correctly" = well written, which is wrong, too)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean he made his points, defended them well and used good examples.

I think he's wrong and that his compliments towards the video were over the top.
i don't see how that precludes it being a well-written piece.

― djdee2005, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:28 (twenty-two years ago)

(sp = independent)(sorry, its a bugbear)

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:30 (twenty-two years ago)

actually, I'm being kneejerk. AW has written very well about lots of things--his piece on the Lovin' Spoonful's "Summer in the City" a couple years ago put his overblown tendencies to excellent use. I just think he's being shortsighted here, and that his good points ("Most hiphop videos don't document New York so much as portray its mean-streets myth") are outgunned by his not-so-good ones (see Strongo upthread)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:31 (twenty-two years ago)

the logic is sort of like "the Roots are so much better than the rest of hip-hop because they take rock values (live instrumentation rather than samples and turntables) and transpose them to hip-hop!" and I like "99 Problems" fine, but I didn't think I was seeing anything all that out of the ordinary for a hip-hop vid.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:35 (twenty-two years ago)

... then all the ghetto folk began to glow like images in a thermal x-ray. Their phosphorescence symbolized life-force, a misunderstood (often misrepresented) energy.

this is pretty funny.

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:41 (twenty-two years ago)

who knew predator vision had such emancipatory promise?

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:44 (twenty-two years ago)

reminds me of

http://images.google.ie/images?q=tbn:dce0zKbAxUcJ:www.timelinestudios.com/images

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan now that you've figured out how to post pictures you're just going nuts, aren't you?

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:45 (twenty-two years ago)

yes! but that actually did remind me of that!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:46 (twenty-two years ago)

how!?

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

is that what you think Armond White looks like?

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Matos. White makes some good points about other hip-hop videos, and about the Making The Band show, but they're overshadowed by his usual misplaced hyperbole. (When determining the size of the salt-boulder you're gonna need to take his opinions with, remember that he's a paid-up member of the Church of Tupac, too.)

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:08 (twenty-two years ago)

well that's odd considering that by basic tone of the article you'd think he'd not realized that hip-hop slipped out of new york's sole custodianship some time around 1985.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I just think he's being shortsighted here, and that his good points ("Most hiphop videos don't document New York so much as portray its mean-streets myth") are outgunned by his not-so-good ones (see Strongo upthread)

i don't see how this video doesn't contribute to the "mean-streets myth," even if it does so with presumably greater verisimilitude (or wider lenses or whatever)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

>well that's odd considering that by basic tone of the article you'd think he'd not realized that hip-hop slipped out of new york's sole custodianship some time around 1985.

The article is about how New York is portrayed through rap. Your statement has nothing to do with the article as it exists, everything to do with your rather rabid defensiveness w/r/t current hip-hop, and betrays near-total ignorance of White, who may well be insane, but is a smart guy nonetheless.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Hiphop's brick wall of stereotypes about the city and its inhabitants was erected by the culture itself. And because it's lucrative, those cliches got repeated. Stigmatization is perpetuated every time you see a music video by Lil Jon & the East Side Boyz, Juvenile, Bonecrusher or Nelly that reinforces banalities about the way black people live. In All Fall Down, even director Chris Milk ignores Kayne West's introspection ("We're all self-conscious, I'm just the first to admit it") for t&a.

none of his comparisons are from anywhere close to nyc, smart guy.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

except for nasty nas.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, if he wanted to discuss 50 or the new mobb deep video or even the new ROOTS video (for chrissakes), that'd be one thing. but comparing the "ha" or "country grammar" videos to "99 problems" as an example of its conversely realistic portrayal of life in nyc (yeah, sure) is a bit flawed, to say the least.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

or "all falls down"!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

chi-town raise up

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

it portrays the harsh realities of airport life

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

little bitches be squirtin your $600 shirt with mustard! that shit don't come out even with pre-treater!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually like his movie reviews. I mean he doesn't shy away from letting you know how he really feels. Also, they tend to be pretty memorable. I think I see his "overblown tendencies" as strong emotional resposes. Not what you usually get with movie reviews, i guess unless you count "hated it" or "loved it."

― danh, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

You miss his point. He's saying that hip-hop cliches w/r/t life in NYC have metastasized into cliches about black city life in general, no matter what city it is. And the "All Fall Down" thing is about fixating on Stacey Dash's ass instead of, I don't know, dramatizing Kanye West's angst or something. I think he's wrong (crunk, among its many other flaws, is totally not city-based music), but that's the point he's making.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

an INTERESTING tack to take irt the "99 problems" video may have been how out of place it feels BECAUSE nyc is no longer the standard back drop for rap videos. even though, you know, it's not much more than the "ill street blues" video crossed with "closer".

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost: oh, okay it's just typical nyc chauvinism then, mea culpa.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

(the current state of rap vids owes way more to compton than nyc anyway.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

you know, ass-fixation and angst aren't mutually inseparable

(xp)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

(which was my point above about tupac all along x-post)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

How exactly do you hit a brick wall with imagery? Is the "lyrical content" driven by greed or are the lyrics rapped by "greed-driven" narrators? Setting White's argument aside, this is some terrible writing.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost: oh, okay it's just typical nyc chauvinism then, mea culpa.

Haha! (This had in fact crossed my mind but I decided to wait on saying it...)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought ass-fixation and angst were the same thing?

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I keep thinking the guy's called 'Almond'. It makes his full name sound like an ice cream flavour.

― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Astoundingly bad. I particularly like this line:

"It was not a great day for the race when the entertainment industrial complex took on the artisanal productions of urban youth, eventually taking over their dreams."

Right, because it's fine to let urban youth dream of being celebrated for their talents, so long as they have no chance of actually making any money out of it.

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Matos.
-- Phil Freeman (newyorkisno...), May 12th, 2004.

first time for everything, right Phil?! ;-)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:25 (twenty-two years ago)

but Romanek himself summed up the cliches back in '91 when musing on a concept for De La Soul's Ring, Ring, Ring (Hey, Hey, Hey). Chicago-born Romanek lamented, "All rap music videos look the same. They're all shot against a brick wall."

I used to watch rap videos all the time in 1991 and I don't remember them all looking the same at all. I remember pink cadillacs flying in front of the moon, another car ploughing into a burning cross, Queen Latifah knocking giant chess pieces off a board, and scenes shot in Egypt.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 32 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

jayzheadnod.gif

― nakhchivan, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:53 (sixteen years ago)

haha!

― tbrrprint (2) HD (zvookster), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:53 (sixteen years ago)

seven years pass...

Armond on The Smiths' Girlfriend in a Coma

― flappy bird, Friday, 11 August 2017 04:22 (eight years ago)

God I hate to be "well actually" but girlfriend in a coma isn't even in the top 10 of controversial morrissey/smiths songs

― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 11 August 2017 06:51 (eight years ago)

i've never been a fan of armond but that was a pretty decent piece imo

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 11 August 2017 07:23 (eight years ago)

did we ever get this sorted lads

― for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 11 August 2017 08:33 (eight years ago)

somewhere in my hellsite of a flat i have a copy of a new york city sun (from 1992 i guess?) which contains two long articles by armond white (while it lasted he was its critic-in-chief)

1: is a long detailed look at malcolm x the historical figure and malcolm x the movie
2: the other is a long favourable look at morrissey, who AW was very evidently drawn to

given both their subsequent trajectories i think this is both telling and -- to be fair to AW -- perceptive

(the movie came out the exact month of the madstock/union jack controversy, which is where inklings of doubt did begin elsewhere; can't recall if the city sun piece discusses this or predates it; should probably look it out and report back, perhaps a month off-line wd do me good)

― mark s, Friday, 11 August 2017 10:45 (eight years ago)

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