The Beatles

I'm guessing most people under 25 wouldn't listen to Elvis unless you paid them either.

My parents were just in Memphis and of course went to Graceland, so I got to thinking: for the life of me I couldn't figure out what if any cultural resonance Elvis has retained. Elvis had his share of awesome, but I've never met anyone who was an earnest Elvis fan the way many people are Beatles (or Stones) fans. It seems when Elvis is invoked, if he is invoked at all, it is as kitsch or punchline, which of course is not fair to his legacy, even though his legacy, ironically, absolutely invites it. Now, the Beatles solo have all invited and deserved barbs as kitch or crap or has-beens or saps, but the Beatles proper have remained pretty bulletproof. They're like a perpetual motion machine, a pop music comet circling the globe and constantly being discovered by young people staring up waiting for it to pass. Can't think of any other acts outside some sort of communal/collective scene (like the Dead) like that.

Especially for music that old. I mean, sometimes I imagine there as as few people listening to Buddy Holly as there are listening to Big Star. I guess Johnny Cash has endured as a trans-generational icon, thanks to his late-life finish line sprint.

I've never met anyone who was an earnest Elvis fan the way many people are Beatles (or Stones) fans.

This is a truly sad statement. I believe you, but it's a fucking tragedy nonetheless. Elvis Presley was one of the five or ten greatest musical performers this country has ever produced - up there with Louis Armstrong, Frank Sinatra and Miles Davis - and the fact that he's been reduced to "kitsch or punchline" is something Americans with functioning ears should be ashamed of.

My mother is an absolutely earnest Elvis fan. So is my nephew, or was as of a couple of years ago. Mom is 65, nephew is 17.

I'm a big Elvis fan, though it took a while, and have never willingly sat through a single one of his movies. The number one complaint I hear about Elvis is that he "stole black peoples' music". Which isn't really a complaint because how does that make him differ from every other musician of the latter 20th century?

It is a tragedy, almost a classical tragedy. Certainly I know people who are Elvis fans, but not to the extent that I know massive Beatles fans. Elvis deserved a mass redemption he never got, but the fact that "Elvis impersonator" is probably the first thing a lot of people think of when they think of Elvis pretty much sums up said tragedy.

I wonder, had that massive decade by decade boxed set reissue program kicked off a year or two ago rather than whenever it did, if the timing might have been better. I hate to be all internet about this, but it would have allowed for a lot more young, engaged voices to asses and re-assess rather than whatever it got in the pages (back when there were pages) of the usual suspects. FWIW, there's exactly one Elvis review in the 'Fork archives.

My experience and perception of the elvis legacy is so far removed from what you're describing it's bewildering. Are you sure you mean the elvis, the elvis presley?

Are you American? Honest question, because maybe this is a matter of perspective. You know about Elvis impersonators and impersonations, right? Which proliferated far more than any, say, Beatles impersonations ever did, and rarely emphasized the music over the jumpsuit and voice? Do you remember the Skinny Elvis vs. Fat Elvis stamp debate? Peanut butter and banana sandwiches? The jungle room? Doing kung fu moves on stage? There are plenty (like me!) who find a lot to like in Elvis, and love certain periods or songs or whatever. But Elvis the icon as I encounter him in the wild really does seem to be kitsch. Obviously Elvis was a huge, important musical figure. So was Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Johnny Cash, lots of folks who were perhaps less famous/successful. But those other cats imo are remembered in different ways than Elvis seems to be (which is different from how he should be remembered).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_impersonator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JbBVKQDTWQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdxr0z3SZ74

Two things I'd say as to why time has been kinder to the Beatles. First, most of Elvis's greatest music is concentrated into two very brief periods: '56 to when he goes into the army in '58 (the Sun stuff was recorded earlier, but not really heard till he became big), and the comeback in '68/69. The Beatles have a fairly solid block of music from '63 to '70; if you're a fan, you won't like it all, but you probably have favourite songs strewn across that block. Also--related--while I can certainly see where someone might view Elvis's greatest music as greater than the Beatles' greatest (not me, but many do), I think it's hard to argue that Elvis didn't make more bad music than the Beatles. For whatever reason--maybe the lingering evidence of all those '60s movies--and fair or not, his less-than-great self seems to live on on almost equal footing with his genius. Solo work aside, that's not true of the Beatles.

It's an interesting question, one that I've tried to figure out myself. I think there a whole bunch of reasons.

Are you American? Honest question

lol

as a yank, my experience of elvis is akin to j-in-c's

the whole thing seemed to hit larry pretty hard in 'rattle and hum' tho i ascribe rather greater depth to our deemster

also my landlord, a lifelong brooklyn resident who looks like a latter-day maradona, has 5THBTLE on his car license plate

Elvis needs a decent biopic.

a role nic cage was born to play

I have a dim memory of the Kurt Russell TV film being pretty good.

Wow--had no idea it was directed by John Carpenter until I looked it up just now. I've seen Russell talk about being on the set with Elvis as a kid, and he says he was a great guy. So he brought that to the film.

"elvis was a hero to most/but he never meant shit to me/love the Beatles tho obv/I mean come on who doesn't?" - Chuck D

just one more nice thing: i think markers is hilarious and awesome. the "i miss you" video gets me every time i encounter it lurking through the old threads.

― Treeship, Monday, June 10, 2013 5:33 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

*flags post*

*flubs post* morelike

I know who mickey mouse is thats about it tbh.

Were I to guess, i'd say any disconnect is occurring btwn 'serious music people' - say ilm as represented here by jic- and 'musics nice isnt it' people like myself, but from the latter pov i'd have elvis as an icon to match the beatles, sinatra, mid 90's oasis, anyone

tbh the beatles shit that most USians are into is pretty kitschy too, pepper & abbey road & yellow submarine, "strawberry fields whatever", it's like goofy good times music for light drug dalliances

ok now I'm sold

Let's get real tho, yanks. The beach boys are a novelty band and you've got to stop inviting them to these discussions.

sounds a bit "serious music people" to me hmmmmm

I dont see the point of having a cake and not eating it tbh

The beach boys are a novelty band and you've got to stop inviting them to these discussions.

With you 1000%. Gimme "Good Vibrations" and "Don't Worry Baby" and I'm done.

Oh shi

My gun was loaded with blanks, but now shots have been fired

What about God Only Knows? Surely that isn't a novelty song.

A lot less so than "Good Vibrations"

tbh the beatles shit that most USians are into is pretty kitschy too, pepper & abbey road & yellow submarine, "strawberry fields whatever", it's like goofy good times music for light drug dalliances

― Euler, Monday, June 10, 2013 8:39 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

vs

alright.. i only read the first bunch of postings.. and i dont know why there are so many haters out there.. dave is a great guy and does alott of work for charities.. pardon the spelling haha.. i dont know where you get corporate rock band from.. since hes libral as hell.. his lyrics are great.. just get beyond everyday and gravedigger.. his so smooth on the guitar its not even funny.. everyone in the band has incredible talent.. and i dont know how you can say its bland music.. some of the greatest artists ever are bland.. for example.. and keep in mind i love the beatles.. but "we all live in a yellow submarineee yellow submarinee.. la la la" its very boring as well.. oh and about his voice.. very few people have the range that dave has.. and what kind of music does everyone here listen too??.. besides britney spears and john mayer of course..
-- CcchrissS (guitarshark198...), December 10th, 2005 3:25 AM.

Once you're separating pop music into kitschy and non-kitschy you've already kind of painted yourself into a corner.

Cf me backing myself into a corner on the lumineers thread

Beach Boys is a good thing to bring up, I think. There are Serious Music People who revere the band, but I bet many only know the hits, and many of those folks listen with some degree of fun fun fun irony. Which is something else unique about the Beatles: does anyone listen to the Beatles ironically? Can the band even be listened to ironically? Elvis, Beach Boys, sure, there's a certain kitsch factor, but even the kitschy Beatles stuff seems self-aware enough to be inured from dismissal. "Yellow Submarine" isn't a great song, and the Beatles don't present it as a great song, but it's still, you know, a great song.

Also, the Beatles never took the stage to "Also sprach Zarathustra,"

It was implied.

Also, the Beatles never took the stage to "Also sprach Zarathustra,"

They never took the stage at all after 1966, pussies

Maybe they would have had they pumped themselves up with Also sprach Zarathustra every night.

I have a dim memory of the Kurt Russell TV film being pretty good.

I watched this about a year ago or so - it's pretty good, Russell is a lot of fun, but nothing revelatory

i think it's pretty misguided to assume that even casual BBs fans are 'listening ironically,' whatever that means -- anyway, there's nothing kitschy about 'fun fun fun,' no moreso than 'she loves you' or 'i wanna hold your hand.'

in my experience most ppl are at least sort of aware that elvis was once young and cool, and that you need to separate 'cool elvis' from 'lame elvis.'

For sure. Same with Beach Boys! But I guarantee you there are more people who do "Kokomo" at karaoke night than "Fun Fun Fun."

And it's not because "Kokomo" is good.

People do the Beatles because everyone knows and loves the Beatles.

Where did you get all these fascinating karaoke stats?

I pulled them out of my butt, ironically.

That was how Yellow Submarine was written.

Many people do actually like "Kokomo," btw.