Revolt of the ILX Brigade: New Post-Fahey Folk For PPL that post in the Takoma & Tompkin's Square Threads

It's all about side 2 of the Chuck Johnson LP. So good.

our roommate is out of town for the weekend but yesterday he got a package from thrill jockey in the mail and i am 99% sure it's the glenn jones rekkerd and i want to open it but that would be wrong :(

but it would feel so right

does he not have a cell phone cmon this is important

lol i'll just have to hold out til monday night. i can do it.

Brutally under-attended Chuck Johnson show tonite in NYC.

Show was great though. So happy to see Chuck live finally.

i ended up staying at the bbq and not going to the show, though i really wanted to. i've been bad about show attendance. i will def go see Glenn though, unless i'm out of state.

Looks like there is now a Mike Gangloff solo record! All fiddle and banjo, but I could listen to this shit all day. Song available in the Dusted review below:

http://www.dustedmagazine.com/reviews/7711

oh man, that gangloff track sounds amazing. thanks!
bummer that the chuck johnson show didn't attract too much of a crowd. i would go see all of these dudes if they came within 100 miles of me...

Digging this Gangloff track- reminds me a bit of a few cuts off that "Roots of Drone" comp on Spotify- some great dirty/weird old folk/blues stuff on there that I think folks on this thread would appreciate

yeah, along the avant-appalachia line, that recent henry flynt graduation reissue is highly recommended too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3J7D3XcCIE

This might be a little OT cos it's so old, but I was listening to this old album at the weekend which is from a couple of guys that were in the Blue Aeroplanes which came out in 1986. One of the first records I know of from the indie side of things where there's such an obvious Fahey influence (did Fahey write the theme or did he borrow it too? I dunno, but it took me a while to work out which Fahey tune it was). Whole album's along those lines and, as with all things Blue Aeroplanes, whether or not you enjoy it will greatly depend on how you like your poetry served. Think it's pretty interesting though.

interesting, don't know that thing.
just saw this from light in the attic...
http://blog.lightintheattic.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/1366195302-778578065720-.jpg
Scott Key - This Forest and the Sea
LION116 (LP)
ORDER NOW!

Out now on Lion Productions, Scott Key’s This Forest and the Sea, an excellent 1976 private press acoustic album, self-recorded at various places in Colorado. From start to finish, this album is filled with beautiful finger style acoustic guitar, plus some atonal bottleneck slide, string scrapes and drones (at times, very Ry Cooder / Paris, Texas about six years before that soundtrack existed). Although almost completely instrumental, what lyrics there are tend towards the dark and the satiric. The obvious points of comparison are John Fahey and Leo Kottke, although Scott Key certainly has his own presence and style, differences in tone and color and attack, which he attributes to his background in rock bands.

Overall, there is a brooding, loner folk/psych feel, most evident on the phenomenal, effects-heavy, almost 11-minute long title track, ‘This Forest and the Sea.’ “I was coming to terms with what it mean to exist… and saw the world in pure black and white—there was no room for grey,” Key said. “I saw an American Culture devoid of any understanding of its place in the universe, how we learn nothing save what we see on television, how our existence is tainted by intellectual laziness, and how our gift of life is defiled by the taking of it.” This deluxe 180-gram vinyl LP edition of This Forest and the Sea comes with an insert which sports engaging, funny, and insightful notes by Key, photos, plus the text to poem that inspired the title track; as a nod to the forest. A very rare album that seems to have flown under almost everyone’s radar—although thankfully not Doug McGowan’s (Yoga Records), who sent this our way. One record collector said to us, and we now say to you: “Have a listen because this rates up there with classics by Bob Desper, Perry Leopold, Robbie Basho, and Phil Yost, with dark moods similar to John Fahey and Nick Drake.”

new cian nugent single is pretty awesome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN0-c__mCtY&feature=player_embedded

forest & the sea is a good record... weird that is' being reissued cuz i never thought it was on an insanely high level; a few of the songs are kinda light and jokey iirc. havent listened to it in ages..

wanna get that gangloff tho!!!!

pretty cool set from william tyler / tim barnes here: http://www.theatreintangible.com/e103-tim-barnes-and-william-tyler-artist-showcase-2013-05-30/

That William Tyler/Tim Barnes set is good. Nice to hear W.Tyler stretch out a litte (I've never seen him play solo or improv live, just in the Silver Jews and Lambchop).

Some nice string-bending on that C. Nugent song. The melody definitely hits a "China Cat Sunflower"/Dead mode pretty heavily.

Also wanna say that the Aquarium Drunkard coverage, amongst other things (like the first tune from it), has me really excited for that Steve Gunn record.

Good review by Tyler!
http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2013/06/06/steve-gunn-time-off/

Cool interview with J.J. Toth.
http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2013/06/05/wooden-wand-interviews-steve-gunn/

good job tyler!

yeah, i need to get that gunn record. i think our roommate just got it in the mail. or at least he got SOMETHING from paradise of bachelors...

steve is a super nice guy.

black twig pickers playing here next week, but it's the same night as a heavy free jazz gig so i am totally torn.

haha, thanks... the interview is the really interesting one.
i even started a wildly popular steve gunn thread this week: Steve Gunn
new album is great, i think everyone will like it. like, even my mom.

perhaps relevant to this thread from that interview

For instance, it’s hard to find a review of any of your records that doesn’t mention John Fahey. Similarly, I always laugh when I read a review of a Rick Bishop or a Six Organs record, and the writer can’t seem to come up with a single other guitar player to compare these guys to. Is this frustrating for you? And to what do you attribute this sudden renewed interest in guitar soli, or what-have-you?

Steve Gunn: I certainly think that Jack Rose set the bar for it. Over the years, he dealt with the whole Fahey comparison, but he managed to step out of that shadow and prove himself as his own being, and I think he started the renewed interest in that world. I certainly listened and studied a lot of that stuff, and Jack was actually a big inspiration for me to go down that road. But now it is a bit frustrating to still see that comparison, but people need something to grab onto when they write about music. I do find it a bit lazy when you can tell when you’re reading a review that the writer is just looking at other reviews and doing the Google thing, not listening to the music and interpreting it for themselves. I don’t know if that answers your question.

JJT: Well, I think some writers just lack some very fundamental understanding of the music. I saw a review of one of the great Imaginational Anthem compilations on Tompkins Square and they were going on and on about the shadow of Fahey – I mean, the first volume featured a track by Bern Nix, fer chrissakes. When I hear guys like you and William (Tyler), I hear as much Sandy Bull, Richard Thompson, and Jerry Garcia as I do anything from the so-called Takoma school.

Steve Gunn: Yeah, Fahey is just the easiest go-to reference for the whole fingerpicking thing. Jack set the bar and I was like, “There’s no way I’m going to step in and try to do what he does,” but at the same time, I was so inspired by him, I just wanted to turn it into my own thing. I’m hoping that when people hear this new record, people won’t be making those comparisons. I don’t really want to be lumped into that school.

he's got a point -- fahey definitely wouldn't be the reference point i'd use for this latest record (or a lot of his stuff, really). but i dunno, as this thread proves, the whole area is generally a wide range of sounds and approaches.

I can't imagine that anyone wants the Fahey comparison at this point, nor Jack Rose, though it is flattering if you touch those heights I guess. Still, I think the Dead nod is a good (and spot on) one, and the addition of singing and drums/bass definitely reframes any real Fahey-isms in a different light.

chuck johnson wfmu session from May is up on the free music archive: http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Chuck_Johnson/Live_at_WFMU_on_Irene_Trudels_Show_-_May_27_2013/

I feel those complaints in that it's lazy writing but if my playing gets good enough where ppl are inaccurately comparing me to fahey I'd consider that a good problem to have

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMQuuZNvwLU

^^^ clarence & roland white, btw. 1973.

to resume my valued thread role as sourpuss... a few people expressed the idea that post-takoma guitar solo is having A Moment right now, & it does seem to be getting more coverage lately. the new glenn jones record is getting much more press than his previous ones - even reviewed on pitchfork (!) - though it's not a radical departure in style or quality from his first four solo records. I'm a little bemused by the affection for william tyler & daniel bachman here as they seem painfully bland to me. I think guitar music was having a better & less boring Moment in the mid 00s with the guitarists crawling out of the free folk/brattleboro festival scene giving critics a focus while they digested the fahey & basho reissues as they poured out. superior records from ppl like harris newman, steffen basho junghans, jack rose, ben chasny's better stuff & of course, glenn jones.

anyway, to be more positive, you should all listen to manchester hometown hereo & best-kept secret, dbh (dan bridgewood-hill), a first-class guitarist w/ seemingly no interest in self-promotion. he put out a record in december called time flies which, in the name of controversy, i deem easily the best guitar record of the 2010s so far. it's probably sold out but i've just spotted it's on spotify. it has a few duets on there but his solo stuff is particularly gorgeous. technically very fresh, light, extremely melodic, painfully pretty, everyone i've played it to has loved it. gets stuck in my head all the time.

first track > http://dbhmusic.bandcamp.com/releases

video of him playing 'fix' on an electric, way up in the skeleton of an unfinished building against the mcr skyline > http://vimeo.com/43571998

spotify > http://open.spotify.com/album/4Oq8HJhXnjJucSwEGEyQMZ

he played an amazing set supporting glenn jones last year & will be opening for daniel bachman when he comes to town, so mb my opinion of the latter will improve seeing him live.

I don't know I think William Tyler is being talked about because there are actual memorable melodies on the record, and relatively varied "atmospheres" (production etc.). I'll admit that I find too many of these people dance aimlessly around the note that's droning in pieces so it's refreshing when I'm humming more than the last track I listened to at the time.

To be real contrarian, the droniness of this style is what I love and is exactly what fascinates me about it... the harmonics and overtones inherent in an open-tuned wood-bodied instrument are just unlike anything else imo

droniness is a virtue, sure, but, say, some of basho-junghans more out-there early/mid 00s output is lush and spacious while playing w/ drones, overtones &c. w/ ludicrous sui generis technical proficiency

quickly perusing Spotify- is Waters in Azure along the lines of this early/mid 00s output you're talking about? The first track is him bending a fretted note without plucking or strumming at all and basically shaking the guitar and drawing out some prolonged resonance, fucking awesome, so probably, yes, along the lines of what you're talking about???

yeah all that strange attractors stuff. waters in azure, inside, 7 books, rivers & bridges. he hasn't released anything since 2009 afaict, which is odd given that he was pretty prolific throughout the 00s and is still performing live

if you ever get the chance to see him play live, you have to. I had no idea how he was going to do certain things, and he made it look completely effortless. trying to copy what he does with his right hand and it just sounds like a muffled, awkward mess. he's Quite A Character in person too, not necessarily the most easy-going individual, but he's hugely knowledgeable and has done as much as anyone to spread robbie basho's music. I think he feels a little bit under-appreciated, which given his talent is understandable. he's got a massive back catalogue though, been playing since the 80s, and has gone through several evolutions during that time.

To clarify, I don't have any problem with the drone- I was talking about when many pieces don't have any melodic direction in the notes that dance around a droning note.

Or it isn't very clear or memorable.

Very glad that someone upthread mentioned Michael Chapman. His early records have had nice reissues of late, but he also put out a more recent instrumental retrospective called Trainsong (1967-2010) that is gorgeous.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/15384-trainsong-guitar-compositions-19672010-fully-qualified-survivor/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYbeMpqN2EY

ongmor -- driving around yesterday we were listening to helen's ipod and john fahey's 'great san bernardino birthday party' came on, and she said something along the lines of, "you know, there are a lot of people who play guitar like this but they just try to play like john fahey and aren't very original.." and i think to some extent that's true. so you're not alone in thinking some of these guys are a bit overrated.

i didn't really know how to respond. i guess when people play in a roots/americana style they get tagged as fahey-imitators, but it's funny that when people try to play like robbie basho or construct 'eastern sounding' tunes, they avoid criticism--even when fahey did that too. fahey is a monumental figure by virtue of making so many records and experimenting so much with style -- besides the american roots-influenced style he also played lots of ragas, experimented with electric guitar, played duets with all sorts of instruments, added elements of musique concrete to his music. it's hard to escape that for a lot of people who want to make guitar music, i think.

going into it you almost just have to accept that there is a lot in the field that has been done before, not just by fahey but by sandy bull and robbie basho and peter walker and the other 60s instro-string heads. do you want to be innovative as a composer or do you want to play music that you like to listen to? i don't mind listening to something that is not pioneering or stylistically individual. it's again in how you approach it. years ago, around the time jack rose's second record came out, i remember old-time hstencil saying to me he was a 'fahey copyist' and i thought 'so what?' and i still kind of think 'so what?'

sorry i am rambling nonsense now.

Jack Rose = boring Fahey copyist.
― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, August 19, 2004 4:29 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^ for posterity!

Well the thing is, anybody on the outside of a subgenre with a very specific sound and technique is going to accuse it of being all the same sounding. I don't know enough about black metal to appreciate subtleties for instance (yet, maybe some day).

i get that, but i don't think either ongmor nor helen have that problem -- clearly they know a lot abt the style of music etc. in fact, i tend to trust helen's opinions abt guitar music more than my own cuz she plays guitar and i do not at all. so my take on it is necessarily going to be grounded in something different than hers.

fair enough that ogmor isn't feeling the william tyler or daniel bachman stuff. i think an interesting element with a lot of the recent crop (recent meaning 15 years back or so?) is the way the takoma/fahey stuff plays off of the noise/drone scenes? like rose, jones, johnson and several others all come from this heavily "out" rock thing, but they've found their way into this rigorous acoustic music (or in jones' case, i guess that's kind of where he started?). i don't know if i have any deep point about it, but i like the tension between the avant rock aspects and the folkier trad aspects. (of course, we could say that fahey was the one who got that whole thing going in the 90s too!).

"going into it you almost just have to accept that there is a lot in the field that has been done before, not just by fahey but by sandy bull and robbie basho and peter walker and the other 60s instro-string heads"

I think this is very much true, and the mileage you get out of that reality varies both as a player and a listener. I am finding myself appreciating craft and effort/struggle in ways that I did not nearly as much as a younger music fan/listener. This stuff is hard to do well, and so when someone does it I think I cut them some slack in regards to the originality aspect in ways I may not for bands, though I don't have great examples at hand right now.

Yeah, it's funny. When listening to some GHQ stuff recommended on the Steve Gunn thread, I found myself digging the most trad guitar parts the most, whereas in 2004-2006 I would have probably wanted more of the drone. I do think some of this stuff keeps that tension there, but in a way I would be happier for some more tension to get inserted into it.

re: the concept of originality, i feel like this style operates necessarily within the folk realm, both in sound (acoustic instruments, 'old timey' tunes!) but also in spirit- i.e. operating within a vernacular. where borrowing/synthesizing/'copying' is key. as Fahey, et. al borrowed passages/quotations from many varied musical traditions, I don't see any issue with some sameie-ness in the current crop, and I think it's natural for them to similarly invoke/borrow. I'd say the interesting aspects of this genre come out of each player's interpretation and style... if you stake too much on originality you're bound to be disappointed. I mean, I'm floored by a lot of Jack Rose tunes, but you can absolutely pick out which songs of his were based on other prominent songs in the ~~American Primitive Ouvre~~. I mean- Catedral Et Chartres is so clearly of Basho (as are a lot of the longer 12 string explorations on that album), but Rose's flair and intensity (and even the fierce and LOUD production) make it worth listening to. The fact that it's not wholly original or 'sui generis' or w/e doesn't mean it isn't amazing.

And very practically, as broad and as varied as the stuff in this thread is, a lot of it all comes down to a single unaccompanied instrument, it is inherently pretty limiting. So I'd say it's remarkable that the stuff in this thread *is* as varied as it is, and a testament to the artistry of the players in question

Well-said global, and I agree: seeing just how much mileage people get out of a single unaccompanied instrument is pretty endlessly interesting to me these days, as long is they invest some real effort etc. into it.

good post global

also wrt william tyler, i mean....i hear fahey but i hear a lot of yo la tengo too or maybe moments of calexico it's p clear he comes from an indie rock perspective on this stuff and i don't think that's a bad thing

Speaking of Calexico, if anyone has ever heard any of their tour only albums that they'd reissued a year ago- many times they dive into instrumental experiments that I feel many of the people in this thread would love. I always have trouble determining if ILX has written them off or not by and large.