Kanye West, Yeezus, 6/18/13 (TBC because who knows anymore)

depends on who you ask ime

i never got the sense that the kardashians were considered white but i'll cede to kanye on this

well the question would be, were the kardashians considered anything else? if not, then they're white

^^^

ime people with heritage from that part of the world (turkey, the caucasus) who have lighter skin than people who'd be referred to as "black" or "brown" but who also definitely don't have standard white european features are just referred to by the nationality of their heritage (when it's mentioned)

the last parentheses is key

lex there were like 50 threads that dealt with that q

there was one, and i didn't read it because it was so -fast-moving

defining ethnicity by how much it's mentioned is kinda weird. we know there are certain things ethnic minorities can do to be less defined by their background, whether that's class/financial privilege or not living within their immigrant community

It's not really that weird when you consider that race in the US is defined by how far you deviate from being generically white/how easily your ethnicity can assimilate into being generically white.

defining ethnicity by how much it's mentioned is kinda weird. we know there are certain things ethnic minorities can do to be less defined by their background, whether that's class/financial privilege or not living within their immigrant community

I'm a lil sympathetic but see Sergio garcias comments today

DJP otm, you're either white or not white more or less

the kardashians mention their background all the time.

also smh at the idea that there's not some fairly obvious cultural context about men performing oral sex on other men without which the sword swallower line makes no sense.

so guyz is snooki white?

i also think that the way kim k has been depicted in the media has not been exactly the same as a roughly equivalent white woman eg paris hilton would have been depicted

what about vin diesel

theres a big difference between 'voluntary identification' and 'imposed identification'... i appreciate that Kim identifies as Armenian American but im not sure how much the public cares

vin diesel and the rock are two good examples of what it means when casting directors want 'ethnically ambiguous' characters

wtf

s clover are you white

i was looking up other prominent americans of caucasian (lol) descent, and wow, this dude has a crazy story

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shalikashvili

I was half paying attention when I was reading that blog post and got really excited that kanye had a song called Black Seinfeld

s clover are you white

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:52 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

here's a picture of me, u figure it out

http://www.hammillpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/hello-yes-this-is-dog.jpg

i've always thought of vin diesel and the rock as white too

I was half paying attention when I was reading that blog post and got really excited that kanye had a song called Black Seinfeld

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, May 22, 2013 10:55 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wow you're going to get really pumped when you find out about wale

haha

part of kardashian's media story surely is that they are "exotic" looking

Hasn't Kim been treated in the media almost EXACTLY like Paris was, at least up to a certain point where their paths diverged? It was like one day the tabloids straight up swapped them out.

The saddest thing about that one line is he's been holding onto it since like 2002, but back then it was "we the nut bussas, and they the swallowers." If your devil's advocate defense of that line is it's not just gay men but also women who suck dick and aren't leaders then yeah go for it.

my interpretation of that line re homophobia is that it further demonizes being on the receiving end in gay sex (iirc there is/was a perception in the DL scene that a top can not really be gay). but i think it's a fairly overt play on words about people criticizing him for being an asshole & that he'd rather remain individualistic than conform to societal norms of niceness. i don't think he's making any comment about gay people.

he is not making a comment about gay people he is just demonizing being on the receiving end of gay sex ok

I just said he wrote the line ten years ago, before he was widely defined as an asshole!

"'i wrote that line ten years ago, before i was widely defined as an asshole,' west concedes."

he is not making a comment about gay people he is just demonizing being on the receiving end of gay sex ok

― da croupier, Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:15 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

that's my devil's advocate reading of the line... i don't actually think there's demonization there

I just said he wrote the line ten years ago, before he was widely defined as an asshole!

― my mans ray manzarek (some dude), Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

even then i don't see it as homophobic. it's sloppy or lazy as a metaphor maybe.

Won't begin to analyze the import of "We top of the totem pole"

it's a simplistic understanding of power relationships during sex that originally derives from homophobic/misogynistic roots but like j0rdan i'd call it clichéd or lazy rather than actively homophobic

I just don't get when people do the "gosh it doesn't bother me" shtick when it's obvious why it COULD bother someone.

well anything COULD bother someone

but anyway i'm saying it's not offensive full stop

I love how righteous jord has been lately about addressing charlemagne the god's mister cee comments, or writers who still say 'pause,' and get a little confused why he's so much more forgiving of things like this kanye line or what a. banks said about a$ap. mostly because I really respect his pov on these things and want to understand it.

but anyway i'm saying it's not offensive full stop

there is plenty of questionable shit that i'm able to overlook/contextualize/ignore/etc but the trick is not tell people that they're wrong to be offended by it just because you can

not to tell people, I mean. Debating whether something is a little racist or a little homophobic or whatever is stupid. "I'd rather be a dick than a swallower" can obviously be read as homophobic and if it slides into your grey area than good for you, buy yourself a cookie.

unless you're actually arguing you like the song BECAUSE of that line, then by all means argue its merit. If you're saying you like Kanye or the track IN SPITE OF it, then let people say they don't like it for the obvious reasons there are to.

The line bothers me more now than it would've in 2004, I can tell you. Not enough to dismiss the song or performance.

I didn't even realize Kim K was Armenian. I just thought she was just one of those southern european olive-complected motherfuckers. She's definitely white but not "good white".

I did get into a conversation a while back tho about how differently the Kardashians would be percieved if they dated white men instead of black.

if kim got famous off a sex tape with aj mclean and was currently pregnant with eminem's child, I dunno if things would be all that different.

haha my first reaction was "wouldn't the better analogy be Aaron Carter rather than AJ"

I hate the way my brain works sometimes

that scenario would drastically change what The Soup says about them, at least

i think there's still a lot of anxiety about the black male / white female pairing, from both sides

now dan forced me to think of Kanye getting famous off a blowjob from Barbara Bush.