Savages

when i think of the vast futuristic universes created by disco, funk, jazz, and prog/psych in the 70's and punk - the most conservative and retro movement outside of dixieland - gets labeled "revolutionary" i just laugh in that way i have of laughing. i mean i like punk cuz i like rock but it was about as revolutionary as my granny's chamber pot. fashionwise, it was a kick, i'll give you that. POST punk, on the other hand, is another thing all together. cuz then all the secret prog fans made records and we were off to the cosmos again.

i know you've read it but this is the thesis of "rip it up and start again"

think a lot of the discussion itt is pretty silly, feel like ppl are getting hung up on things that are, like, common underlying assumptions we take for granted when talking about music. maybe we could unpack why ppl have so much trouble coming to terms with liking a post punk band in 2013? people still listen to rap music & it's barely any younger. maybe it's because post-punk went away and then came back, in this case largely intact? maybe because the people who were originally into it are now older but still influential in uk music press & have made a series of misguided attempts to bring it back? maybe it has to do with how post punk became new wave & has been part of pop music dna ever since?

think a lot of the discussion itt is pretty silly, feel like ppl are getting hung up on things that are, like, common underlying assumptions we take for granted when talking about music. maybe we could unpack why ppl have so much trouble coming to terms with liking a post punk band in 2013? people still listen to rap music & it's barely any younger. maybe it's because post-punk went away and then came back, in this case largely intact?

yeah, but post-punk isn't really equivalent to rap. rap is a big umbrella, like rock. post-punk matches up better with like, 80s era "old school" rap. if someone came along spitting in a fastidiously retro kool moe dee style over vintage beats (or w/e), there'd be exactly the same kind of push back. maybe a bit less, as "retro rap" is somewhat fresher as a concept than "retro rock".

More bands should ape Newcleus.

well if we're going there, more bands should ape Euromasters

when i think of the vast futuristic universes created by disco, funk, jazz, and prog/psych in the 70's and punk - the most conservative and retro movement outside of dixieland - gets labeled "revolutionary" i just laugh in that way i have of laughing. i mean i like punk cuz i like rock but it was about as revolutionary as my granny's chamber pot.

i see where this is coming from, but punk isn't just the conservative/conformist loudfastrules thing. it's also an ethos and sensibility that extends out into a hugely diverse body of art: crass, the cbgb's crew, no wave, flipper & the germs, gary panter, wire circa document & eyewitness, survival research laboratories, transgressive underground cinema, english postpunk, american indie and hardcore, noise as music, extremists like swans, "industrial culture", "pigfuck", etc.

tangential to this thread, but i get bugged by the "punk = ramones & pistols, lol punk is conservative" argument.

Gabber Gabber Hey.

xpost

xp yeah obv scott/simon reynolds are overestimating the vast futurism of disco funk jazz prog/psych and underestimating the radicalism of punk, i mean obviously scott owns some pretty cosmic disco records but that doesn't map onto your average 1977 listener's experience so nicely. the idea that punk was revolutionary was a product of cliches existing at the time, but that doesn't mean we can an equally misrepresentative cliche in the other direction made today is any better

contenderizer otm

I've never actually read any of simon's books. don't tell him. I like him though.

simon introduced me to joy press and the first thing she said was that she was a big fan of mine! omg I almost died! I love her. made me wish that I wrote more. #braggin

Anyone been watching the stream?

Crowd looks upset they can't check their texts

i love this sense i get (perhaps entirely manufactured) that they're working with sounds and symbols and emotions that are way more powerful than they know exactly what to do with. like the whole "wrote you a story" bit with hit me was ridiculous and out there, but then they pulled it into a strong performance.

on the other hand they seemed totally pro at the end of the set -- not exhausted and etc. at all but just like they could deliver a performance that seemed like it took all their energy, but it was just that, a performance.

which isn't a bad thing either.

Yeah I'm a bit turned off by the melodrama/over-seriousness about them but am very much liking the songs and they perform well it seems.

okay, I THINK I've found the ultimate influence on Savages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmqe47KNZ6M

this album is.....ok? they seem like they would be good live, but i'm not overly enamored w/the songs or the sound of the record.

Great ambient music, in the sense of "It's definitely Siouxsie/East Bay Ray with further noises and therefore easy to have playing without worrying too much." (I assure you, a compliment.)

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:30 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OTM, but I perceive a subtle cut in the ambiguity of "ambient" (or at least a slightly less sanguine compliment). Savages' product is calculated and tight, attractively ernest but v. controlled, and the energy/intensity/excitement they exude is at the core cold and mercenary. their blunt rapaciousness in the context of indie rock seems fresh after two decades of ironic/furtive/incidental/fortuitous/idealized ambition, and they remind me most of early U2, not so much in sound as in presentation and affect. if they can thread the needle and define themselves outside of the postpunk revivalist ghetto (while still sporting its mystique), they might be huge. (their music atm is bloodless and tasteful pastiche, but they're probably already negotiating w/ heavyweight producers w/bags of big tunes, so w/e).

well that's why if you watch the videos of the singer's previous group - there are a lot of them including a rather precious acoustic indie rock thin lizzy cover - you see that this is someone working lots of angles/styles in the search of...a hit? a career? something that will stick? and then on to savages which is art directed up the wazoo. which is fine by me. ambition doesn't turn me off. I will be celebrating the 30th anniversary of Madonna's debut this summer with cake and balloons.

and they are definitely a band that sound-wise could go anywhere.

I have no idea how successful he previous group was. maybe they were huge in france. maybe she has already had some chart success? haven't read anything about that.

It is very art directed. Makes me wonder how they create records like this if any one member isn't exactly on the same page... even when it comes down to things like when the drums come back on here, and what instrument is playing by itself there, etc.

Seems like it would real work

would be

careful arrangement should be real work

the strokes: UK edition

if only these guys wrote songs like the strokes

Wow, with this much hype, soon they could be as big as Fischerspooner!

You obviously don't need to be distinctive; if you did, half the dance music I see celebrated on this site would get ignored.

A lot of the best dance music is pretty distinctive, but in general it's meant to be faceless, meant to slot seamlessly into a wider whole. Rock music by contrast is all about personality, if a rock star doesn't hold your attention, isn't the most riveting thing you can see or hear at any point, then they're doing something wrong. I know a lot of US and UK indie-pop undercuts this to an extent but with a band as in-your-face as Savages I still feel there's something missing.

Like I said they do feel like there's something there as well that could develop into something fantastic by their second or third album but they seem kind of half formed at the moment.

If your producer is called "Johnny Hostile" then don't be surprised if people take you less than seriously. People in rock who call themselves Johnny anything should be conscripted.

didn't realise she'd done a thing with bo ningen. cool!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAXYdAR2f3Q

The PR / Marketing for these folks is raging full on..I see an ad for them on every other site.

I've listened to the album a few times now and.......it's good. Not amazing. I'm not too fond of "Strife," "No Face" or "Hit Me," but the rest is fine (ignoring "Dead Nature" here). I wish it was mixed better - it's a bit too dense for my liking - it needs some more space. There isn't much Joy Division-sounding on the album, but I thought of Crispy Ambulance a couple of times. Jehnny Beth doesn't sound much like Siouxsie besides the "uh uh" things on "Husbands" (I prefer the single version of that, to be honest). The lyrics aren't as good as Jehnny probably thinks they are, but I can ignore that. The bassist is REALLY good though.

I had no idea this band was hyped at all until Matador announced the LP... Some friends were talking about them last year so I gave them a listen and dug it enough to buy the 7" and the live EP. I liked that stuff enough to pre-order the album at my local record store and bought it on the day of release. This is the first time in years that I've bought an album without listening to it thoroughly beforehand, so I am disappointed that I don't like it as much as I hoped.

I don't spend much time worrying about people's motives or looking for clues about who they're ripping off, but I don't think emulating obscure (by general public standards) bands from decades ago is a guaranteed path to superstardom. Maybe I'm naive to think it isn't totally calculated, but they could be copying top 40 pop stuff with guest rap stars and probably reach a much wider audience than they will with this type of music.

Enjoyed Shut Up today - thought about Echo and the Bunnymen for some reason while listening - not that this detracted from the tune.

Good spot on Crispy Ambulance. There's a bit of Warsaw, Kitchens Of Distinction, Southern Death Cult, Diamanda Galas... I think the Banshees thing is pretty uncontroversial though. They're more like a Limey Interpol rather than Strokes surely?

It's pretty depressing the amount of misogynist comments I've had to delete off our site about them. Of a really lame... "I'm not sexist but... [insert sexist comment here]" type.

Yeah, that is pretty depressing actually. It's 2013, for fucks sake...

Southern Death Cult is a good spot I think.

Been listening to this a bit more now that the weather has turned to shit here and I'm definitely coming round to it, think I was pretty much wrong when I said they didn't have the songs. Still hard to shake the echoes of other bands but it actually feels fairly fresh in a way cos there are interesting combinations of influences once you get beyond the 'oh it's just post punk' blanket statement and they play it with enough skill and dead-on conviction that it does stand up on its own merits. Kind of like the Iceage records maybe?

Gets gothier in the later half of the record, but some of the tracks on the first side (especially 'I Am Here') are a bit like early YYY's meet Scratch Acid (a testament to the excellent bass player that). Singer sounds very Karen O-ish in places, but the more intense and yelpy she gets, the more undeniable the Siouxsieness is. Also there's things like on Hit Me where she sings 'tell me, tell me, tell me' and it feels like a direct reference to the Banshees via 'Helter Skelter'. 'She Will' is the one that sounds like early Cult, that's such a Billy Duffy guitar line on there. Husbands is like a cross between the Banshees and 'Horses' and '12XU' (impossible for me not to sing 'saw you in a mag, kissing a man' to the first line).

Actually, Husbands feels even gothier still when you pretend she's singing 'Huysmans, Huysmans, Huysmans'

Definitely get a YYYs vibe from Hit Me.

boring

KEXP session pretty good, but probably won't sway the nay sayers

http://www.npr.org/event/music/184349634/savages-elegant-brutality-rendered-anything-but-silent

this is my favorite album of the year so far

it's been done

so's yr mom

even that was better the first time

You know if I was taping this for a friend, I might be tempted to put Griller by Ut on side two

I keep reading the thread title as "Sausages."

That would undermine the feminist themes on the album.

when I first read this thread I googled the band and now I get fucking savages banners on every site I visit.

so's yr mom

hasn't everyone's mom?