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xxxxp whoa buckingham/nicks-era fleetwood mac had actual songs yo

:-\

ooooook time for #13

I just disagree with you about it 'working' - he sounds really stupid and bitter

like, have you never felt bitter!? it's pretty relatable as far as feeling bitter goes, i think that's why it works. it's really mean but people feel that way sometimes. i think it's a a pretty good snapshot at what it's like to lose your emotions like that... i'm sure kanye doesn't feel that way about alexis atm

xxxposts: yeah, it's too easy to get caught up in whether kanye is painting himself in a bad light intentionally, for artistic purposes, or just cuz he's a dick. main thing is that the effect is there, and it makes the songs/album more interesting.

Honestly I think 808s works a lot better if you listen to it with the standpoint that Kanye's viewpoint isn't intended to be sympathetic 100% of the time, making the ones where he is genuinely sympathetic all the more powerful ("Street Lights").

xpost: I really feel like you are missing the entire point of "Robocop". He is being stupid and bitter on that song and it's put across in a manner that seems intended to make you say "no wonder she dumped you". That appears to be the entire point of the song; the venom, the incoherence, the total refusal to take any culpability for destabilizing the relationship... I don't see how you can go into this song at all thinking that Kanye is trying to get you on his side!

Fair enough if the negative reaction makes you dislike the song, but I really think that negative reaction to Kanye is intentional.

idk if it's intentional, but certainly he knows that he sounds like a huge dick on that song - part of a relationship tho

xxxxp whoa buckingham/nicks-era fleetwood mac had actual songs yo

― call all destroyer

yeah, that's why i get bored by FFs, no songs. but that's definitely the vibe they're shooting for, and they sometimes nail it

do people who hate on 808s also hate on Marvin's "Here My Dear"?

lol let's talk about Fleet Foxes now

well yeah, but it's not bitter in a righteous or relatable way! There are tons of songs that convey the bitterness of a breakup much better than 'robocop', it's not as if this subject matter hasn't been done before so I don't get your point

Marvin doesn't call her 'so dr. evil'.

^^^still amazed that people latch on to the dr. evil line.

well obviously i like it for more reasons than the sentiment - for instance, the chorus, the drums, the violin part - i'm just saying that the sentiment and lyrics aren't a hold up at all for me, and in fact the opposite

kanye is such a dork btw - it's funny like he openly expresses love and admiration for tv on the radio and justice and posts animal collective videos on his blog, but on his album he references: robocop, dr. evil and stephen king (twice)

i mean i'm not trying to say that kanye is in any way comparable to marvin but just in terms of "misogyny" (I had to wade through the 808s & Heartbreak thread for blurbs and it was torture) and self-pity and etc.

"Relatable" is a tricky word there; I think "understanable" is a more appropriate way of putting it. You don't need to endorse the viewpoint to get what's going on there. Also, the full-on cartoony nonsense that is the backing track wrapped up with the narcissistic sentiment kind of pushes the whole thing past "can you believe this shit????" and into "can you believe this shit works???"

kanye is such a dork btw - it's funny like he openly expresses love and admiration for tv on the radio and justice and posts animal collective videos on his blog, but on his album he references: robocop, dr. evil and stephen king (twice)

Kanye = Carlton Banks but w/ Will Smith's attitudinizing.

btw some guy in my building plays 808s every morning between like 7:30 and 8:30. at least it's something i don't mind.

only used the dr. evil line because heartless is the single i keep hearing, but the lyric is stoopid.

(Basically, I'm arguing that had he tried to go for a more balanced tone on that song, it wouldn't have worked because the carnival sideshow backing track would have run roughshod over it.)

i agree

Kanye = Carlton Banks but w/ Will Smith's attitudinizing.

― Cunga

truthbombz

Well obviously we disagree on whether or not it "works".

Which is okay

I just disagree with you about it 'working' - he sounds really stupid and bitter, the "spoiled little L.A. girl" thing makes me think "damn dude no wonder she broke up with your ass" - and I can't even enjoy it in a "this is so bad it's good" way, it's just annoying.

― let's get high off our own supply (The Brainwasher), Friday, February 13, 2009 5:00 PM (7 minutes ago)

dude for me it's not a 'so bad it's good' thing; i really appreciate the way kanye has chosen to make this a "moment in time" piece rather than a carefully-planned epic. it really cpatures the way you feel when your heart is broken (whether you deserved it or not) and who doesnt say or think those kinds of things when they're hurt? to me, it really establishes the album's character as vulnerable and redeemable and makes the whole thing infinitely more relateable. jsut one of the reasons it works so well imo.

many many xposts lol or exactly what jordan said! we are on the same page

i am so glad that the state of the 808 debate has not changed a bit in the last couple months. really takes me back, y'know?

"if you missed it the first time on ILX....."

the difference itt is that anthony miccio isn't trolling

brainwasher = anthony m.?

no

hahahahha noo

miccio = da croupier

i'd like to say good to see some big guns outta the way early but

lol @ brainwasher being the gut pick for someone trolling

when like I said in the chris brown thread I am usually half-trolling

anyway musically can you post #13 now

well like I said*

haw i didnt mean it that way, the way you phrased it made it seem as anthony m1ccio was in this thread

my God "Amazing" is great

possibly the most amazing thing about it is how great Jeezy is on it considering that most of the time I hate him

that edge-of-the-world beat really works for him - also added oomph from ye dropping the track before his verse comes in

anyway musically can you post #13 now

― let's get high off our own supply (The Brainwasher)

i would but i don't feel that we have discussed 808s and heartbreak enough

it's okay, we'll keep talking about it regardless of what you post

I'M AMAZING
YEAH IM ALL THAT
IF I AINT ON THE GRIND
THEN WHAT YOU CALL THAT

shit doesn't even have anything to do w/ the album but it's still so poignant imo

okay j0rdan I don't mean to antagonize you butttttt..... how is that 'poignant'? it's just a generic jeezy rhyme

exactly

lol

EYES SO LOW YEAH I LOOK LIKE AN ASIAN

woops wrong "Amazing" but still so poignant

^i don't endorse this as a hot jeezy rhyme fwiw

btw maybe he is @ 13...

just getting my complaining out of the way now and we don't have to discuss it further, i'm really surprised of montreal did not place; i checked the other thread and counted 51.5 points on people prematurely posting their ballots alone, and seeing as the #50 album had only 80 points, i thought it would poke into the bottom fifth somewhere for sure