Jefferson Airplane

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Listened to "After Bathing At Baxter's" again recently - rubbish for the most part, worse than I remembered, they just aren't very good songwriters, the vocals are intensely irritating all the way thru the album and tho Jorma Kaukonen is an excellent guitarist I wish he'd play a little less. Right after it I played 13th Floor Elevators (2nd & 3rd albums) and they are just so much better in every single department, save boring ones like professionalism, technique and stuff like being able to play and sing in tune. Plus, I've realised all the bands who copied Jefferson Airplane (e.g. Fairport Convention, United States of America and Amon Duul II) are all light years better than them.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 11 March 2005 10:29 (twenty-one years ago)

frank, please explain.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 11 March 2005 10:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah really, do.

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 March 2005 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Dadaismus - the bass lines on every track of Baxter's are what do it for me. none of those bands you listed, Amon Duul 2 excepted, have such great bass playing.

― eman (eman), Friday, 11 March 2005 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

He is a good bass player but do you honestly listen to Jefferson Airplane for the bass playing? Very odd.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 11 March 2005 13:48 (twenty-one years ago)

heh, i don't mean that's the sole reason i listen to them, but it gives them a trademark sound (at least on baxter's) that those other groups don't have.

― eman (eman), Friday, 11 March 2005 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Can anyone point me to a well-written explanation of how they went from psychedelia in the 60s to slick synth-pop in the 80s? Because I just don't understand how one goes from "White Rabbit" to "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now".

― Tantrum (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 11 March 2005 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, it's easy, it's the same way one goes from "Children of the Future" to "Abracadabra", or from "Paper Sun" to "Back in the High Life Again", or from "SWLABR" to "It's In the Way that You Use It". It's real easy.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 11 March 2005 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

frank, please explain.

No. If explained, annoying statements such as "Better than the Beatles" are no longer nearly as annoying.

So, not in explanation of the above, Grace Slick doesn't seem like any other hippie singers, unless you count Ann Wilson and Courtney Love as hippie singers. But then, the hippies were more punk than the punks were anyway.

Jack Casady played bass for James Brown.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 11 March 2005 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Siouxsie Sioux as well (though that weakens my argument).

(What argument?)

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 11 March 2005 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

(NO, SIOUXSIE DID NOT PLAY BASS FOR JAMES BROWN. AND I AM PROBABLY MISSPELLING HER NAME.)

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 11 March 2005 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

50 Ft. Hose were more fun.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 March 2005 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Stubbing your toe is more fun.

― Burr (Burr), Friday, 11 March 2005 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

By the way, just as an anecdote -- but this touches on Chuck (and maybe Frank, too) writing in the past on here about Jefferson Airplane as danceable rock and roll: I was in Italy recently at a mod festival and they had really hip DJs playing mostly obscure freakbeat and stuff and tons of people were dancing. One of the DJs played "Somebody to Love" and people went bananas and kept right on dancing. It sounded great. It was nice to see that mods could get into Jefferson Airplane.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 March 2005 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I am getting something out of Surrealistic Pillow, but it makes me feel like I'm going deaf straining to hear the *good bits* that ARE there, but badly recorded/mixed. I've got the mono and the stereo (the box set mix) versions and they're both infuriating. The drums are so bloody quiet on the 'rockers' and the mono mix is the least punchy mono mix ever. Oh well.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 11 March 2005 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Pillow is too folk-rock overall. Funkiest side they ever recorded was Side Two of Bless Its Pointed Little Head (starts w/ "Other Side of this Life" on CD) (Side One is worth avoiding, however). My favorite two Airplane songs are "If You Feel" on Crown of Creation and "Young Girl Sunday Blues" on Baxters.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 11 March 2005 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

in regard to Tim's 3xpost: what is "obscure freakbeat"? just mod stuff you can dance to?

― deru, Friday, 11 March 2005 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess the term was just coined in reference to obscure British psychedelia, but people probably use it to refer to European psych, too. Definitely refers to rocking psychedelia that you can dance to, though -- indeed -- as opposed to chamber music psych, more folk-oriented psych, etc.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 March 2005 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

four weeks pass...

I just realized that the rhythm of "White Rabbit" sounds really middle eastern. Is that pathetically obvious? Sometimes when you hear something at a very early age, it takes years for these things to occur to you.

― RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Sunday, 10 April 2005 10:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't know about the rhythm, but the mode is phrygian, which can sound eastern. The chord progression on the verses is also a sort of archetypal flamenco progression.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 April 2005 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I am listening to Volunteers and I'm here to tell you that Nicky Hopkins is THE SECRET WEAPON.

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

wow "crown of creation" is pretty damn good.

re: the comparison upthread with amon düül 2, the similarity in looks of grace slick and renate knaup is uncanny
http://www.herbgreenefoto.com/gallery/jefferson_airplane/grace-2.jpg http://www.mic.gr/dbimages/1071_1.jpg

― Amon (eman), Sunday, 15 May 2005 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow what a great picture of Grace.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Sunday, 15 May 2005 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I've gotten really into the Airplane and Slick/Kantner LPs recently ("Sunfighter" is my fave). Grace is such a terrific songwriter, and I personally love her singing. I also dig the wacky rock-star sci-fi libertarian pot-plant liner note stuff in those Slick/Kantner albums. The original Airplane was such a great band, though; this thread surprises me.

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Just got "Crown of Creation" - I know what you're thinking, more fool me for buying albums by bands I appear not to like, but it was cheap and I thought I'd give it a shot. So, in comparison to "After Bathing", there is less shouting, less shrillness and less Paul Kantner - all of which are plus points in my book. On the debit side, the songwriting (Grace aside) is even more threadbare and there isn't enough of Jorma Kaukonen and what there of him is often thru a wah wah, which is a waste. I think I've just about given up on this band.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

well, if it's any consolation, after 'Crown' there's really only 'Volunteers' then you SHOULD give up on them...

but, that's mine opine.

― eedd, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost - please give up on them already, you've already shit on my favorite albums of theirs! there are plenty of other bands with far bigger nits to pick, so have at them!

― Amon (eman), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I've loved this band since I was a kid, though thank goodness I love them a lot less than I used to (i.e. I no longer own everything ever released on Grunt.)

Everytime I play "Two Heads" off "Bathing at Baxter's" when I DJ it out, I get kids running up, wanting to know what the hell it is. That's one hell of a bass line.

― Michael J McGonigal (mike mcgonigal), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

ten months pass...

Wow, I'm baffled by all the Grace Slick hatred. I'm finally getting around to Surrealistic Pillow, and all I keep asking myself is why the band would so underutilize such a great and distinctive singer. Actually, a few bands I know personally are kind of similar - one great singer, 2 or 3 mediocre ones but hey, it's a big party and we all get to dance, hence no defining sound for the band.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Thursday, 20 April 2006 02:14 (twenty years ago)

Marty Balin is a good singer, no?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 20 April 2006 02:21 (twenty years ago)

Dude, I just bought Surrealistic Pillow two weekends ago and all I could can really say about it is, "Why didn't I own this record sooner?"

Also baffled on the Slick hatred.

― mts (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 20 April 2006 02:28 (twenty years ago)

Somebody to Love is a really really great song, and one whose true greatness is easy to miss when buried in Time/Life Sounds of the 60s collections.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Thursday, 20 April 2006 02:37 (twenty years ago)

"Today" slayed me the other night.

― mts (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 20 April 2006 02:39 (twenty years ago)

hell yeah that pic of grace is awesome

― nervous.gif (eman), Thursday, 20 April 2006 02:51 (twenty years ago)

I am shocked by the lack of love for Volunteers, which is solid and really the only album I can listen to.

Classic though White Rabbit and Somebody to Love may be, they fall easily into that category of songs that, once they lose their initial, fresh power, never regain it. Grace Slick oversings and I cringe now at the very thought of it. And that's Pillow spoiled.

― someone let this mitya out! (mitya), Thursday, 20 April 2006 03:36 (twenty years ago)

My Best Friend is a nice gift/steal left behind by Skip Spence after he was kicked out

― timmy tannin (pompous), Thursday, 20 April 2006 05:09 (twenty years ago)

Blues From An Airplane=GRAND!!!

― eedd, Thursday, 20 April 2006 16:30 (twenty years ago)

The Airplane are one of the great for sure. I even nominated them for the best four records in a row thread.

― QuantumNoise (Justin Farrar), Thursday, 20 April 2006 16:35 (twenty years ago)

Ugh. Just tried Volunteers from my dad's vinyl. Craptastic. Muddy, hookless boring.

― js (honestengine), Thursday, 20 April 2006 17:32 (twenty years ago)

JA = the amerikan Crass

― dave q (listerine), Thursday, 20 April 2006 17:38 (twenty years ago)

Muddy, hookless boring

up against tha wall, muthafucka!

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 20 April 2006 18:03 (twenty years ago)

JA = the amerikan Crass

aw c'mon they're not that bad

― A nervous goat is a force to be reckoned with (teenagequiet), Thursday, 20 April 2006 18:11 (twenty years ago)

aw c'mon they're not that good, you mean!!!!!!!!!!

― TS: Mick Ralphs vs. Ariel Bender (Dada), Friday, 21 April 2006 10:46 (twenty years ago)

'Volunteers' is a great spring song, and so is 'Good Shepherd.'

― def zep (calstars), Friday, 21 April 2006 11:29 (twenty years ago)

i'm tellin ya, Volunteers is THE END of JA...like it or not, this their 'disintegration album' (no, not the Cure...). it's last semi-cohesive/band album, after it just gets TOO stoned...or whatever.

i went back and listened to Takes Off/Surrealistic/Baxters- a pretty solid run right there, for any band of the day. granted, there's some filler-fodder, but i mean, c'mon! it WAS the 60's fer christ's sake!

that said, Skippy shoulda stayed and played some gtr!! JA coulda had 'Hey, Grandma', 'Omaha', and any number of Skip tunes had they let him hang around...

― eedd, Friday, 21 April 2006 13:33 (twenty years ago)

exception to the rule that LA production/recording was the bees knees.

― 25 yr old slacker cokehead (Enrique), Friday, 21 April 2006 13:35 (twenty years ago)

I don't know from Crass, but I think you have to appreciate the chutzpah of the "rock star revolutionary" stance the late Airplane played around with, and the ambivalent/ironic relationship they set up with the "counterculture." They were obviously politically engaged (some band members more than others) and believed in certain things, but they were also self-aware and not into straight sloganeering, and they tweaked their image and enagaged with what was going on in the "streets" in a really cool and complex way.

We are all outlaws in the eyes of America
In order to survive we steal cheat lie forge fuck hide and deal
We are obscene lawless hideous dangerous dirty violent and young
But we should be together
Come on all you people standing around
Our life's too fine to let it die and
We should be together
All your private property is
Target for your enemy
And your enemy is
We
We are forces of chaos and anarchy
Everything they say we are we are
And we are very
Proud of ourselves

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Friday, 21 April 2006 17:28 (twenty years ago)

Morris is OTM. If you scan a bunch of Slick's lyrics they are not cheap '60s sloganeering at all. In fact she totally captures the whole "we want something new but don't know what" vibe of stoned SF in the late 60s and she's conscious of this.

― QuantumNoise (Justin Farrar), Friday, 21 April 2006 17:34 (twenty years ago)

Yes but what if the music sucks?

― TS: Mick Ralphs vs. Ariel Bender (Dada), Friday, 21 April 2006 17:35 (twenty years ago)

I don't think the music sucks at all so it's not an issue with me.

I keep harping on it but After Bathing at Baxter's is a total mindfuck of a guitar-oriented psych album. If someone is into psychedelia but disses the Airplane then he/she ain't really into psychedelia.

― QuantumNoise (Justin Farrar), Friday, 21 April 2006 17:42 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 367 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

They were wonderful in Monterey Pop, yes. 1967 was their best year in many ways.

― birdistheword, Thursday, 20 February 2025 20:59 (one year ago)

New Grace Slick interview. I've never looked into any background about the band outside of their work so a lot of the info's new to me, but wow is that a succinct yet graphic description of her brief fling with Jim Morrison.

― birdistheword, Thursday, 27 February 2025 04:24 (one year ago)

I remember a review of her autobio in Q or Mojo that was basically "...She has unclear memories of many landmark events in Rock history, but she definitely never forgot a penis!"

― Okay, heteros are cutting edge this year, too. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 27 February 2025 05:06 (one year ago)

one year passes...

Am I right that there's never been a JA album poll? If not, I'll have to put one up tomorrow (just a checkbox poll)--seems odd.

Anyway, I'll skip the context, but after tonight's Jays game, Sportsnet's Jamie Campbell said "If I pay to see Jefferson Airplane, I want to hear 'Eskimo Blue Day'..." Wow--that's a fan.

― clemenza, Wednesday, 1 April 2026 02:11 (two months ago)

Jorma was so sick widdit

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 1 April 2026 02:27 (two months ago)

Grace Slick's long character arc, from Bear Melt to Panda

― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 1 April 2026 02:51 (two months ago)

I mean to check out Baron von Tollbooth & the Chrome Nun to see where it falls in the Airplane/Starship continuum.

It's about 58% Airplane to 42% Starship.

― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 1 April 2026 02:57 (two months ago)

with a decent amount of mellotron

― brimstead, Wednesday, 1 April 2026 03:47 (two months ago)

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