Britpop : Time For Reevaluation?

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I never said they were british.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

Well yeah, I'm not denying the existence of innovation in Metal, Dance, or even US Alternative stuff, just the UK indie and rock scene in general

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

Just the NME :)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

I was trying to think of some genuinely decent forward-thinking and innovative guitar-based music from the UK in the last 5 years and was very hard pushed

Since the mid 80s, the best music has never been neither innovative nor forward thinking. However, there are still great tunes, with great verses, great choruses, great bridges, great middle-eights. At least in music that isn't "innovative". And that is a lot more important.

― Geir Hongro, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

I'm trying to think if there was ever a time when American bands were ever so unabashedly jingoistic as their Britpop brothers.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

http://bluestormmusic.com/store/images/grandfunk-wereanamerican.jpg

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

X-post
Bato isn't in a band.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

actually in terms of innovation British metal in the 00s has been lacking, however these are amongst the elite

Akercocke
Anaal Nathrakh
Axis of Perdition
Earthtone 9
Esoteric
Frost [half brits half norsk]

so how are they innovating?

does it work like 4/4 dance music where the big progression this decade has been on increased sense of space and depth, technical intricacy beyond the 'surfaces' of tracks, minimal-complex etc. - are these same ideas being applied to Metal by these bands? or something else?

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

To be honest most of the time I don't really notice where a bands from. Perhaps that's because I cant always find interviews (apart from maybe Rockarolla) so i have no idea where they are from.

Some good brit bands/acts around just now ...hmmm
Jesu
Holy McGrail
Atavist
Skullflower
Ashtray Navigations
James Blackshaw
The Heads
Electric Wizard
Moss
Sickoakes

I haven't heard The Lords or Crippled Black Phoenix albums yet so I can't judge them.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

"oh and JESU piss allover most things around just now. Wheres the NME and Kerrang front covers?"

http://a420.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/40/m_82070278bb95f67298a9618760e3399b.gif

― scott seward, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

my analysis of British (& some Irish) from the recent past. Overall British music in recent times has been lacking in numbers i.e quantity of quality in terms of talent.
.
What may be the contributing factors?

the post Peel era of a more conservative Radio 1
Xfm generic rubbish / with a very conservative format
6 Music completely underperforming with dull radio programming ruled on behalf of pluggers
Useless established print media and no effective and different weekly competition for NME and Kerrang
Increasing fragmentation of self contained music scenes
No interesting music on mainstream TV, e.g another snoring boring series of the jools holland show

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/djmartian/mercury_music_prize_2006

Some Eligible Albums for the Mercury Music Prize 2006. i.e British or Irish Artists who released an album between July 25th 2005 and July 17th 2006.

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/djmartian/mercury_music_prize_2005

Some Eligible Albums for the Mercury Music Prize 2005. i.e British or Irish Artists who released an album between July 26th 2004 and July 18th 2005.

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

How does Justin Broadrick look so young*? He's been around forever?

* He is young
Well, under 40 anyway.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

another slant, Norway has a population of under 5 Million, 12 times smaller than the UK - and is punching way above it's comparative size in a wide range of music genres.

as demonstrated by their national music promotion portal

MIC Norway
http://www.mic.no/english

Why is Norway performing so well culturally in the 00s?
Why are their musicians willing to be more creative?
Does a smaller country facilitate music to thrive more easily compared to other larger European countries?

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

the next grozart OTM

I moan about Pitchfork too, but IRL that message, that the US (not to forget other places but particularly w/r/t US indie vs UK indie) wipes the floor with most of our (Britishes) efforts is v.much what I've been expressing to my friends for, years now.

And yeah, the Klaxons embodying the sudden appearance of "omg thinking outside THE RULES fisher price my first experimental pop/rock band" as some kind of belated antidote/apology for the last half decade of dour, dopey conservative mediocrity is just tragic when something like that Marnie Stern album just absolutely FLATTENS teh Klaxons for excitement, freshness and pure giddy RAWK fun.

I don't care for almost ANY of Louis suggestions sadly :( (not even Beta Band and esp. not SFA ugh).

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

Because of Geir!

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

the nebulous post-electroclash/post-DFA/Ed Banger/Indieclash thing suddenly getting "New Rave" as a nom de plume, just in case it was in any danger of going somewhere interesting, less retro, more creative is ... kind of irritating.

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

Guys, this is moaning and self-pity is bullshit, and gets on my nerves. In the USA Nickelback sold 5 million records, not the Animal Collective or Joanna Newsom. There are dozens of good artists in the UK who are actually not generic indie, from Patrick Wolf to Electrelane and so on. Lock this thread, please.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

This has probably been true for the last 20 years. [/yankophile]

Don't really agree with this either. The nineties were an exceptional time for UK pop music and as far as the more challenging stuff is concerned, the UK has led the way in many other styles up until about five years ago what with Warp Records etc.

the next grozart on Friday, 9 March 2007 13:00 (1 hour ago)

The original quote referred specifically to the indie scene, rather than music in general, so pop music isn't relevant. I wasn't saying there hasn't been both fantastic and challenging music from the UK, of course there has been, but I still feel we don't really compare with the US, BUT that is from the viewpoint of my personal music taste. Maybe I should have said the last 10 years. Certainly I think you have to dig a lot deeper since BritPop to find stuff that doesn't suck. I suppose I blame BritPop for ruining "indie" and haven't forgiven it! I know during the BritPop Years 95-97 I pretty much gave up on UK indie.

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

If it hadn't been for the internet and finding about music from other countries that weren't covered by the uk press, I would've been either stuck in mojo land or out of music completely after exhausting krautrock and "lost classics".

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:17 (nineteen years ago)

Shame we can't add a poll to this thread "Did britpop kill UK Indie?"

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:18 (nineteen years ago)

There are dozens of good artists in the UK who are actually not generic indie, from Patrick Wolf to Electrelane and so on.

zeus

selling absolutely fuck all, even compared to Joanna Newsom, I'd wager?

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:22 (nineteen years ago)

Well, the Patrick Wolf album is actually almost in the Top 40.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:24 (nineteen years ago)

ok, I lose :/

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

current albums sold in the UK outside the top 40, by artists that haven't previously had a top 40 chart album

6 Music chart
http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/shows/chart/chart_page.shtml

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

So was the Joanna Newsom record.

What DJ Martian says above about the Norwegian music scene is equally, if not more so, applicable to the scene in Canada at the moment. How come they manage to be so much more creative than Britain? Probably it's a matter not just of distance, but of the lack of any perceived need for rivalry or coolness and a willingness to experiment without instantly being pinned down by the media.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/shows/chart/chart_page.shtml

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

That Marnie Stern record sounds interesting; I'll definitely be checking that out.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

The marnie stern album is great

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

Thanks for that link, djmartian, that's interesting.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

Re: Canada

I can see a thread in 3 years: 'What happened with the Canadian indie scene?!'

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:37 (nineteen years ago)

There's probably already one

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

The reason the Canadian indie scene is so great is for one reason: THEY FREAKING SUBSIDIZE THE F*CK OUT OF IT. Plus the whole protectionism of Cancon on all media channels

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

So Canadian protectionism is a good thing, but the British protectionism is jingoism? Strange effects.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:21 (nineteen years ago)

Haven't seen the Arts Council sticking their arm out recently. Mind you, when the emblem of decadence in British music in 2007 is the Horrors, can you really blame them?

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:48 (nineteen years ago)

If its not classical it won't get funded, right?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:50 (nineteen years ago)

These Canadians win the worst name award though.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

Either that or it has to come under the nefarious boundaries of "world music" or "community music."

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

Wot, no vernacular music?

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 16:55 (nineteen years ago)

That would mean giving public money to Jack McLaughlin.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:57 (nineteen years ago)

Subsidised indie rock would be worse than NME Carling Rock though I'm sure.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:07 (nineteen years ago)

It would probably sound like Fat Les.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

Canadian indie isn't subsidised for being indie, it's subsidised for being CANADIAN.

That's what you've got to do to keep some kind of national cultural identity when up against the giant cultural monolith next door.

I mean, maybe that's a point. Who are British bands competing with, locally? Breton hip-hop? I don't think so.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:12 (nineteen years ago)

Ireland!

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

There's no Scottish subsidy for jingly jangly bands.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:15 (nineteen years ago)

But it there may well be legislation introduced after the forthcoming elections

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

It would probably sound like Fat Les.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy on Friday, 9 March 2007 17:11 (5 minutes ago)

Fat Les no worse than the horrors.

― Pashmina, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

Keith Allen isn't in The Horrors though.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

I haven't actually heard any music by The Horrors. That's probably in their favour just now. Are they as bad as I imagine?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

"Canadian indie isn't subsidised for being indie, it's subsidised for being CANADIAN."

This is not quite true. For bands like You Say Party We Say Die (horrid name I guess, but quite a good band), the only way they are subsidised would be through increased radio/media exposure via the CRTC broadcast requirements. Most stations have to play 35% Canadian Content. However some stations also have a requirement to play a certain percentage of independent releases. At the station I'm with we have to play (if memory serves) 35% Canadian, 60% independent, 60% releases from the last 6 months and 50% female-related artists (ie. at least one member of the band is a woman).

Other stations have various other playlist requirements, the idea being that EVERYTHING gets some exposure. Culturally specific genres like reggae, merengue and yes, even Brit-pop, generally have different Can-con rules - usually something like 10%.

― everything, Friday, 9 March 2007 17:42 (nineteen years ago)

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