defend the indefensible: Hall and Oates

few H&O songs sound the same

Raggett & Keyes -- get your head out of the sand and address the argument, not opine on the person who wrote it, then, go get intimate with yourselves and your old Lionel Ritchie records.

It's not formulaic if you invented the formula

watch out - this guy takes no prisoners!

how the hell wasn't Al Green dropped by his record company?

oh no "product" waaaaaanhh

go get intimate with yourselves and your old Lionel Ritchie records.

hello, it is me i'm looking for

their pedigree demonstrates an existence that has difficulty expanding outside the realm of radio

This isn't just absurd as a premise -- an artist has an obligation to look beyond radio confines? -- but just wrong, as the number of R&B and hip hop acts who've cited H&O's New Wave soul moves in their own work (there's a song called "Billie Jean" you might need to hear).

"formulaic" is not a terribly useful concept when criticising pop music. it seems to miss the point.

yeah I mean if you despise commercialism, radio and formula then a Hall and Oates thread is kind of a lol place to sound off

Ned, is it true you dance on the ceiling?

This thread reeks of "product."

I'm sure Ian McKaye has a LOT to say about Hall and Oates.

"You're Out Of Touch (With The World)"

*steps away to bathroom to get intimate with myself*

...All night long

"Formulaic" is the last word I would use to describe "Delayed Reaction" or "Say It Isn't So." It sounds like you've deemed yourself an expert on this band after becoming familiar with about 8 of their biggest songs. H&O doesn't get nearly enough credit for stretching their influences outside of what was expected... I'm surprised "Crime Pays" hasn't been sampled anywhere in hiphop (as far as I know)... And "Gotta Notta Nerve" is easily the best Devo knock-off I've ever heard.

This is "formulaic"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lagKbNP7SvU

I was gonna cite "Open All Night" but then someone could've said it sounds like Ariel Pink which makes it formulaic.

man <i>H20</i> has so many good, unexpected tunes.

...number of R&B and hip hop acts who've cited H&O's New Wave soul...

...there's a song called "Billie Jean" you might need to hear...

It sounds like you've deemed yourself an expert on this band

nice to see some actually find some humor in this -- i mean, how can anybody be so fragile that they can be hurt by an opinion

We're awestruck by your perfect ear and discriminating intelligence.

I have no reason to be hurt. Just saying, your opinion seems misinformed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=FvcJqcUlYTo

suspecterrain can you recommend some non-formulaic music to listen to? also looking to buy some records that aren't product

or maybe just cut to the chase and instead of giving me fish teach me how to fish: what makes an act bonafide? you've clearly thought this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vPonjXOfYo

if you despise commercialism, radio and formula then a Hall and Oates thread is kind of a lol place to sound off

Naive TI -- that we disagree somehow makes me a curmudgeon?

balls -- while it's worse now than it has ever been, most cities have pretty much the same hand-full of radio stations. they may be dance-oriented or pop or classic rock or oldies or "outlaw" country or whatever, but there is little variation in the playlists from town-to-town as media conglomerates are pedaling the same product in what is likely several dozen separate markets. I certainly recognize that iTunes (et. al.) has expanded the possibility for individual musical discoveries, but you can pretty much expect them to repeatedly shove whatever's "hot" in your face in hopes of selling more copies.

Personally, i view music as art, not product. Art, no matter how much critical consensus it garners, is still subjective to the individual participating with it.

you're opening my eyes man

ftr what cities have 'outlaw' country stations?

suspecterrain what's yr take on the 'monsanto protection act'?

suspectmarissa

ftr what cities have 'outlaw' country stations?

The ones that play Kristofferson, Jennings, and Cash?

suspecterrain is right: the thread title is as constricted and absurd as his arguments.

Lord Sotosyn; i presume you'd prefer to exchange personal attacks and further define stereotypical divergences and the nature of each others grandmothers affinity for donning militaristic footwear?

balls -- Monsanto Protection Act -- we need to feed to the world, and gmo's certainly help achieve that in a way far more efficiently than we have ever seen. But the fallout from monculture has yet to fully demonstrate it's full impact on both crops and its pollinators. Man creates products and laws well before we are able to understand their consequences.

banaka should weigh in on this

hall & oates more like hall and butts

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-U1967295.jpg?size=67&uid=9300992c-ba67-4557-9c49-8bee0bb6a8dd

In the 80s we had Hall and Oates
Today we have drones

now we've got no hall and no oates

suspecterrain,

Perhaps I am misreading you. But your contributions to this thread and the Spotify one read to me like pure trolling. Most people come to boards like ILM to share their views and knowledge of music -- and to add to them by learning something. You seem dead set on letting everyone know how much you know -- and how superior that knowledge is to everyone else's.

You also appear to lack a sense of humor.

you're suspect

under two different names i have been posting to this board for over 10 years. my initial post here and on the Spotify thread were simple statements of my opinion; that individuals used them to make indiscriminate conclusions and remarks about me as a person is something i fail to find significant humor in. I don't think less of people for liking this music, or black-eyed peas or lady gaga; but i certainly believe that this venue should be more than capable of discussing these topics on many levels. Nowhere have i stated that i am "right" and you are "wrong" -- i'm simply offering my personal standpoint -- just like in the Spotify thread; tried it, didn't like the commercials, opted instead for grooveshark. If i were trolling i would likely have made some asinine statement that grouped users of Spotify (or any other streaming service) are complete idiots -- i did not -- i stated my opinion and then had to defend myself against accusations that i was somehow a degenerate because i didn't see the value in a streaming service. Seems you might have this thing the wrong way round.

this kind of asinine statement?

Personally, i blame the fickle money-grubbing nature of the commercial media that drove these tracks to be slathered over the airwaves, and the empty-headed buying populace that made these mega stars.

If you've been on this board ten years, then you might have seen the futility of positing binaries like "art" vs "product"

if you don't like commerce probly best not listen to music

or engage with cultural products at all really

You may or may not be trolling but I think you may have missed out on a transformation or reappropriation of the "Defend the Indefensible" concept - - - for me this kind of thread has always been about rehabilitating artists that are widely considered "indefensible." Obviously many such threads are just heaping abuse on easy targets, but others are a resource for discovering a way into bands you otherwise might not have rated.

If you have been posting here for over ten years, then surely you can't think we're all strangers to arguments dismissing popular music on the basis that it is popular (ie commercial, marketable, catchy, whatever). xxxposts

To return to the subject of cooperation. It may be a curious speculation ot attend to the progressive steps, by which this feature of human society may be expected to decline. For example: shall we have concerts of music? The miserable state of mechanism of the majority of the performers, is so conspicuous, as to be, even at this day, a topic of mortification and ridicule. Will it not be practicable hereafter for one man to perform the whole? Shall we have theatrical exhibitions? This seems to include an absurd and vicious cooperation. It may be doubted, whether men will hereafter come forward in any mode, formally to repeat words and ideas that are not their own? It may be doubted, whether any musical performer will habitually execute the compositions of others? We yield supinely to the superior merit of our predecessors, because we are accustomed to indulge the inactivity of our faculties. All formal repetition of other men's ideas, seems to be a scheme for imprisoning, for so long a time, the operations of our own mind. It borders perhaps, in this respect, upon a breach of sincerity, which requires that we should give immediate utterance to every useful and valuable idea that occurs.

William Godwin agrees with you and he was quite cool tho

You also, in those 10 years, might have picked up that what Ned and I wrote here was pretty mild

blame it on 'terrain

You may have been more convincing had you compard H&O unfavorably to some other 80s pop artist, but since you just talked about product and inept consumers it leads me to believe that you probably hate pop music in general. An attitude more fitting for RYM boards than ILM.