amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

http://youtu.be/h57XWrFNGs8

skip to 5:10

xp tangent, but there seems to be a thing now with popstars more explicitly selling that sense of community or friendship that fans feel; lady gaga, bieber, minaj, lil b, maybe even odd future in their way...

xpost - what the fuck are ppl applauding that for?

Fan clubs have existed since the dawn of celebrity

http://youtu.be/h57XWrFNGs8

skip to 5:10

'my whole life is this struggle to figure out what's too exhibitionisty'

losing that struggle

The blatant monetizing of fandom is such a huge thing now (and no, DJP, it's not fanclub business as usual) and I think Palmer at least seems sincere about it (as does Gaga, not so much Bieber). As far as I can tell she does give back in many ways. There was a girl who once gave her some fan art so Palmer paid her to design a Dresden Dolls poster and off the back of that she got more work and is now making a living as an artist. That strikes me as pretty decent. It's not just take take take and I don't believe her fans are vulnerable or gullible enough to put up with her in great numbers if that's all it was.

every person that bought an empty wine bottle out of amanda palmer's recycling is now self-employed as an artist

good long post matt

As far as the sexism charges, I don't necessarily agree. Gene Simmons has long been called a whore by a great many people for actually helping to pioneer the douchbaggery that Palmer acts entitled to, for example.

Good post ums

As I said upthread, it is mind-bogglingly hilarious to me that Amanda Palmer was able to sell TWO empty wine bottles for more money apiece than she was able to sell autographed copies of her albums.

i guess you can like put a candle in a wine bottle so it's more useful than one of her albums

i think it's telling that people who are musical artists/have worked or performed tend to be far more critical of AP than casual listeners are.

lol forks

people who tend to be more critical of AP:

- are musical artists; or
- have performed; or
- have worked

i mean i wouldn't even suggest to call myself an artist but making music has been a big part of my life etc, but there was never a thought that it might make money or anything

Drinking wine has been a big part of my life etc, but there was never a thought that it might make money or anything

with palmer there just seems like this total lack of empathy for anyone or anything that isn't her, or can't be useful for her.

otm. This is my main beef w her. The media kerfuffle over the unpaid musicians tour led me to read her blog posts so i could see HER side of the argument, and all I found was a hall of mirrors that only reflected her. All content not written by her fans was either self-praise, self-victimization, or Grand Concepts For The Future that had all the depth and insight of directions for a homework assignment. It makes me think of artsy intellectuals that spend so much time going on and on about what amazing ideas they come up with, far more time than they spend on actually working on stuff. The most important work is in constructing a persona, harnessing the audience it attracts, and feeding that back into the persona. A conceptual performance art bubble. Not substance to it aside from "AP is a brilliant artist".

even though I know what thread this is etc and I think I myself have used the AP abbreviation, every now and then I get a flash of "leave Adrian Peterson alone"

Drinking wine has been a big part of my life etc, but there was never a thought that it might make money or anything

― how's life, Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:44 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol i have a TED Talk you should watch

I wonder how many homeless people asked AP Kickstarter funders for money and were turned down. Now she gets paid to give a talk at a tech conference about how "All you have to do is ask for money!". And some guy is freezing his ass off on the streets somewhere trying that exact same thing in order to scrape enough money to get a bottle of Red Rooster 21.

people who tend to be more critical of AP:
- are musical artists; or
- have performed; or
- have worked
― Darth Icky (DJP)

typo on my part, was meant to read "people who are musical artists/have worked industry or performed professionally"

I don't believe her fans are vulnerable or gullible enough to put up with her in great numbers if that's all it was.

They strike me as being vulnerable people, though.

I got that it was a typo, I just thought it was funny

"adrian peterson's open letter to robert smith" would actually sort of work

http://brainerddispatch.com/images/121400/spt_smithLR.jpg

I had a bunch of AP stans referring to my current project as a quote-unquote magazine which I think says a lot about their opinions on independent culture that hasn't been shoved down their throat by TED talks and toxic narcissism

xp: lol I was thinking exactly that

well on the internet everyone is welcome to their quote-unquote opinion, eh.

this is indicative of a larger attitude imo

a friend just sent me a link to ap playing 'creep' just after her ted talk : /

She plays a creep very well fwiw.

victimization, appealing to audience for sympathy. sarah palin does that alot too.

I had a bunch of AP stans referring to my current project as a quote-unquote magazine which I think says a lot about their opinions on independent culture that hasn't been shoved down their throat by TED talks and toxic narcissism

― maura, Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:41 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

BOOM

if it ain't got staples

u_u

good long post matt

― i petted a bodega cat today. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:19 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^
really lovely

ums on the mark.

/thread

look, i think it's great amanda palmer has had some success with her schtick. i kinda feel dumb for piling on. anyone who can bull their way into the public consciousness the way amanda palmer has, and can finance the music they want to make - it's impressive. not every self-aggrandizing narcissist can pull that off.

but not every artist is a self-aggrandizing narcissist, or lucky. so her prescription isn't applicable for everyone, or even for most. i mean, once you start talking about hey, how SHOULD work that doesn't pull in financial remuneration in predictable or traditional ways (making music, running a household, raising a child, caring for someone with an illness, writing a book) be compensated, you start dealing with fairly fundamental, non-futuristic political issues

okay, so i've been pointedly not mentioning this but I happen to be good friends with the guy who booked the amanda palmer TED talk and we had dinner tonight and when i broached the subject it was clear that he had no idea there had been any negative backlash at all.
he asked me to mail him a few negative articles. Can i get a reader's digest of links? People wanna post their faves?

lol

i mean i could just mail him this thread but no

I'm still baffled he hadn't heard one negative comment. He was honestly totally surprised?

he thought i was talking about the way she had handled the hiring free musicians thing; he was not aware of any negativity surrounding the TED talk.
He's a good guy and genuinely curious to hear why people might have had an issue with it; I'd like to send him some cogent commentary on the subject from people who actually cared enough to write about the more problematic issues with that talk. Maura?

is he tuomas? i mean i appreciate that you're trying to help a bro, but is publicity not his alleged game?

it's not; he booked the TED talk. but as long as we're talking about it, do you know of any articles discussing logical/ethical issues with that talk?

smdh @ this from ap's blog

"i wound up in a fit of weeping a few days ago when my old piano teacher and mentor from college posted on the TED website that i was a manipulative piece of shit.
i cried for a good 10 minutes. i went to twitter for comfort….and someone sent me a link to the local newspaper article explaining that she’d had a stroke and couldn’t play piano for a while. and i started weeping all over again"

xpost

I don't know of many articles about it, but they critically discussed the TED talk on this podcast (starts 19 minutes in):

http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/culturegabfest/2013/03/culture_gabfest_podcast_channing_tatum_vs_taylor_kitsch_amanda_palmer_and.html

smdh @ this from ap's blog

"i wound up in a fit of weeping a few days ago when my old piano teacher and mentor from college posted on the TED website that i was a manipulative piece of shit.
i cried for a good 10 minutes. i went to twitter for comfort….and someone sent me a link to the local newspaper article explaining that she’d had a stroke and couldn’t play piano for a while. and i started weeping all over again"

It's funny that she was upset at her teacher for calling her a manipulative piece of shit while writing something that illustrates perfectly why she is a manipulative piece of shit.

another critical mention of the TED talk en passant: http://gawker.com/5989280/when-people-write-for-free-who-pays

It seems like its more something that gets invoked as part of broader arguments rather than a sufficient hook for an article on its own. (i guess despite declining journalistic standards, "this person was on youtube and now i'm so irritated" still doesn't quite make the cut).

Send him this thread

The EMP Pop Conference event in NYC in April will also feature a keynote talk by legendary producer Joe Boyd and a live-streamed keynote discussion by singer/composer/online entrepreneur Amanda Palmer

She's making the rounds