amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

besides the raw feeling of embarrassment whenever i hear her talk, i think what bugs me the most is how cult-like her whole deal is -- the extra-musical things are the main things, as far as i can tell.

I find her fans quite creepy -- they seem more like religious fanatics than music fans. Even Morrissey fans aren't as creepy as hers, jfc.

xxpost -- He gave a TED talk. (Ted's his barkeep.)

I was trying to think of a straight male equivalent to AP--someone whose ego and neediness pleases a certain fanbase but invokes nausea in many others--and all I can come up with is Dane Cook.

Ricky Gervais?

she seems to talk a lot about the significance of her own actions and the significance of her audience's being her audience, which is, like, usually a theme reserved for… jesus, dictators, self-realization-method-entrepreneurs, uh…

― j., Thursday, March 21, 2013 3:38 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. Every time I encounter anything she's doing, the underlying theme is a celebration of her ego. I'm trying to even think of a musician i like that does constantly talk about themselves and how amazing they are. Are there any? I mean John Lennon was in the 'Bigger than God' Beatles and even he was mostly fond of saying "it was just a band get over it".

andrew breitbart

the KLF, probably

― ☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:34 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

<3<3

Justin Bieber
Drake
Kanye West

Noel Gallagher
Billy Corgan
Yngwie Malmsteen

World's worst G3 touring lineup.

i don't think any of those people get to the level of "the title on their business card is not really what they do" that i'm trying to get at. maybe noel, now.

yngwie has a small and very dedicated following, but idk if he's out there saying that ranting on airplanes and selling laquered humidors is the future of metal

DJ Spooky

Nothing he said was insulting to Dan, but it was directly insulting to me.

I may be being overliteral, it's a thing that I do, but just to check when you say directly insulting to you, you're not saying that Ned is directing his remarks at you, right?

I read it more in the spirit of

D: "The Tea Party annoys the fuck out of me"
N: "Why do you hate freedom, you heartless tyrant?"

IE snarky assumption of a ridiculous tone from a position that it's understood neither of them inhabits.

DJ Spooky is a great example of this.

Completely.

I often forget DJ Spooky exists, too

actually... Lupe Fiasco

DJ Spooky is a great example of this.

― 誤訳侮辱,

better schtick too, there's going to be a museum circuit for the forseeable future but social networking technology conferences are not a venue you can count on as a career-canny musician thinking of the long haul

We had a great cast (isangallthegoodsongs).

better schtick too, there's going to be a museum circuit for the forseeable future but social networking technology conferences are not a venue you can count on as a career-canny musician thinking of the long haul

you are wildly underestimating the collective credulity of the tech world

better schtick too, there's going to be a museum circuit for the forseeable future but social networking technology conferences are not a venue you can count on as a career-canny musician thinking of the long haul

idk, in the realm of pop culture I think social media/performance theory today has roughly the same weight as mixed media/postmodern theory in the 90s; I can v. easily see Palmer ditching the music and nabbing a gig that’s more highbrow/academic. let’s not forget that Spooky’s greatest credential is his ecstatic vision of postmodernism as a playground f/ limitless self-realization inextricably linked w/ oblivious and compulsive production that’s packaged and sold as an intoxicating stew of reified, idealized narcissism that only secondarily employs music and text and film. in the rarified circles to which AP and Spooky aspire, only success is success, and success is the only necessary credential f/ any endeavor (meaning Palmer’s future may actually depend on her continuation down her current path, and I’m sure she’ll be fine).

p sure his greatest credential was always 'let's get this dj guy in here to tell us about how this electronic whatever that has overrun us is actually good somehow'

http://instagram.com/p/W07AuHif8n/

oh my godddd

yeah, he was selling a future which not coincidentally had him at its (hipster) nucleus. AP I think is working a similar schtick from a slightly different platform.

xxp

it was semi-intended, give me a little credit

― Darth Icky (DJP), Thursday, 21 March 2013 15:10 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I read it as if you were saying it was yourself that got fantastic reviews...

Iknow, that was ages ago...

p sure what makes amanda palmer so annoying is that she's cheerleading for a system of remuneration in which the people who actually make things have to depend on the voluntary generosity of their paymasters, as if we haven't had several centuries to see how that works out. and the fact that it's working out well for her at the moment appears to be the only criterion she gives a shit about

homeless man: "i am broke and starving and lost and my life in ruins."

ap: "did you remember to ask for money?"

i mean she's essentially right-wing, i guess i'm not blowing any minds here with that statement but it's worth remembering occasionally that she has more in common with ed meese than kathleen hanna

Sarah Palin might be a better comparison, she has a similar cult of personality and "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality.

xp - the thing is, that's a lot of how the non-profit economy works in America. Most of America's cultural institutions, both large and small, have to depend on the voluntary generosity of their "paymasters". She just seems to be applying that model to the individual artist, which is what kickstarter does to an extent. I feel like the brouhaha with the kickstarter campaign and the "booze and hugs" musicians wouldn't have been an issue if the project was funded privately, or from her own resources, or by a label. But because it was presented in this public contribute-to-a-charity way, the fact that she wasn't completely charitable in the way she conducted the work garnered the same reaction that a lot of non-profits or government agencies get when there is perceived inequity.

p sure what makes amanda palmer so annoying is that she's cheerleading for a system of remuneration in which the people who actually make things have to depend on the voluntary generosity of their paymasters, as if we haven't had several centuries to see how that works out. and the fact that it's working out well for her at the moment appears to be the only criterion she gives a shit about

but the thing is, and this is extra-annoying but that's life: if you are a recording artist, life in the digital age means that you depend on the voluntary generosity of your paymasters if you want to be paid for your recorded music. What she has learned that if you 1) acknowledge this and then 2) say that it's awesome and is the future!!, people will reward you for your stance by giving you money for the records they otherwise would still grab but wouldn't pay you for.

it's a very calculated stance, in my opinion, and a tempting one: it works like a charm, on the evidence. But that system she's cheerleading, that's just how it is, if you can game it to pay you by saying it's nice, why not

she has a similar cult of personality and "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality.

Is that like Sarah Palin or just like a whole bunch of rock stars and rappers with healthy egos? "I built that" is the cornerstone of many artists' self-belief. I don't think that makes her right-wing but boostering a (new! exciting! revolutionary!) system that she must know (and indeed has said before) only works for a lucky few is disingenuous.

because that system can only work for a few people who already have advantages, is why not, it's an antediluvian i-got-mine mentality that deserves to be taken out to the woods to die

Most of America's cultural institutions, both large and small, have to depend on the voluntary generosity of their "paymasters".

right but they're institutions, and they can do things that individuals - even a powerful individual like amanda palmer - can't, i.e. create grants, do outreach, put on workshops, start mentoring programs - that energize people and create a sense of community, and develop their own momentum

But the reason she got hers is that she cultivated a fanbase. Roadrunner gave her the platform but the fan outreach was all her doing.

Annoying though she can be, I find myself moved to defend her against the Worst Person Ever line.

why not just eliminate all public services and then people can fill out applications for garbage collection and medical care, and if they're really great and interesting and their application includes an unexpected painting on the last page, then they totally deserve not to die in a ditch after getting run over by amanda palmer's tour bus

i don't know if she is really making that claim universally. There is a difference between "who should be a professional artist" and "who has the right to a humane existence because they are human beings." I think you are unfairly and probably inaccurately extrapolating her position on artistic success

it's true, i'm extrapolating. but the two aren't so far apart i don't think. making art is labor. her philosophy about how that labor should be compensated is so retrograde and right-wing that it's basically pre-capitalist.

i guess the issue is that should any and all labor that anyone does be compensated? like, should everyone who records an album be guaranteed a payment of $100? $1000?

Annoying though she can be, I find myself moved to defend her against the Worst Person Ever line.

In an masochistic (and predictable) effort to dilute my own annoyance about her, I listened to her album and it's pretty good! Not my thing obv, but I can definitely see how "die-hard fans" would go to bat for her, if they came to her through her music first

starry-eyed ukelele prophet: artists should subsist on a diet of love and hugs and togetherness and beggary of gifts!
moneybags owner-operator: heh sounds good to me

thing is, as she says, her model of constant emotional labor as a cut-around for atrophied funding flows to tangible labor probably IS the future of music

i guess the issue is that should any and all labor that anyone does be compensated? like, should everyone who records an album be guaranteed a payment of $100? $1000?

This is not the issue at all. The issue is "is it okay to look askance at the motives of someone who sets a $100K budget for an artistic project who, when they raise $1.2 million, turns around and says 'now I need free musicians to play this on tour'?"

the thing is, though, she is not a charity, she is not a government agency, she is a person, and if she makes a lot of money, she can just keep it and be rich. I mean, c'mon DJP, do you give all your excess income to the needy and deserving? Maybe you just buy a nice new car because you have every right to do so.

wtf

DJP doesn't propose that the future of human society is we all give him money.

'well now…'

it's more wtf how people are holding her to a higher standard than other successful artists

How many other successful artists explicitly send out appeals for professional-level musicians to play for the for free?

i don't think any of this discussion actually even addresses her as an artist!