amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

You sexist hatemonger, why do you despise success

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:33 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Wow. I am actually really shocked, surprised and hurt at this, particularly coming from you, Ned. Dan's post was a perfectly well-considered objection to objectionable behaviour, but you choose to use it as a springboard to present a massively reductionist caricature of people who care about the very real elements of sexism regularly presented in discussions about this woman.

I'm pretty certain Ned meant "sexy hatemonger"

Also that's he's been friends with DJP for 15(?) years.

I am not sure that I am not falling into a comedy trap, but too far in now...

I'm... not entirely sure how you read my post, there. Nothing he said was insulting to Dan, but it was directly insulting to me.

And I do apologize for that, as I well know my snark gets the better of me sometimes. If reductionist, though, I think there's a LOT of that going around. As I think we can all agree on, a lot of Palmer's fanbase (and I'm not counting you among them, per your earlier comments) is doing her absolutely no favors in the slightest at present when it comes to their own reflexive reactions.

what happened, I am confused (and it's Andrew's fault)

I was trying to think of a straight male equivalent to AP--someone whose ego and neediness pleases a certain fanbase but invokes nausea in many others--and all I can come up with is Dane Cook.

Charlie Sheen
Chris Brown
Mel Gibson

... just off the top of my head

Guy Fieri?

"ANYONE CAN ASK FOR MONEY, ANYONE" reminds me of the famous observation by anatole france that the law, "in its majestic equality", forbids both rich and poor from stealing bread and sleeping under bridges

besides the raw feeling of embarrassment whenever i hear her talk, i think what bugs me the most is how cult-like her whole deal is -- the extra-musical things are the main things, as far as i can tell.

and all of my friends were in a production of Mahagonny that was about to go up (which I was also in and got fantastic reviews)

(The bit in brackets made me smile, doubtless it reads in a way not intended)

it was semi-intended, give me a little credit

by that i mean that her musical output is a relatively small and almost perfunctory part of a larger project of micro-fame status management. OF COURSE it would be this half-assed cabaret stuff.

xp to myself

xp: but the main point was more that not only was she outright dissing friends of mine who are all a good bit more talented than me, but she was also also dissing something I was directly involved in that was actually really fucking great

Charlie Sheen
Chris Brown
Mel Gibson

There are other reasons to dislike these guys than that they go on about how they used the internet to revolutionize the comic-audience dynamic

"how the songs should be performed",

In a bra and a German military cap?

I was trying to think of a straight male equivalent to AP--someone whose ego and neediness pleases a certain fanbase but invokes nausea in many others--and all I can come up with is Dane Cook.

― gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:04 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's been about 10 years since I noticed anything that Dane Cook has done. Did he pen a manifesto or something?

"challops as a way of life"

besides the raw feeling of embarrassment whenever i hear her talk, i think what bugs me the most is how cult-like her whole deal is -- the extra-musical things are the main things, as far as i can tell.

I find her fans quite creepy -- they seem more like religious fanatics than music fans. Even Morrissey fans aren't as creepy as hers, jfc.

xxpost -- He gave a TED talk. (Ted's his barkeep.)

I was trying to think of a straight male equivalent to AP--someone whose ego and neediness pleases a certain fanbase but invokes nausea in many others--and all I can come up with is Dane Cook.

Ricky Gervais?

she seems to talk a lot about the significance of her own actions and the significance of her audience's being her audience, which is, like, usually a theme reserved for… jesus, dictators, self-realization-method-entrepreneurs, uh…

― j., Thursday, March 21, 2013 3:38 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. Every time I encounter anything she's doing, the underlying theme is a celebration of her ego. I'm trying to even think of a musician i like that does constantly talk about themselves and how amazing they are. Are there any? I mean John Lennon was in the 'Bigger than God' Beatles and even he was mostly fond of saying "it was just a band get over it".

andrew breitbart

the KLF, probably

― ☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:34 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

<3<3

Justin Bieber
Drake
Kanye West

Noel Gallagher
Billy Corgan
Yngwie Malmsteen

World's worst G3 touring lineup.

i don't think any of those people get to the level of "the title on their business card is not really what they do" that i'm trying to get at. maybe noel, now.

yngwie has a small and very dedicated following, but idk if he's out there saying that ranting on airplanes and selling laquered humidors is the future of metal

DJ Spooky

Nothing he said was insulting to Dan, but it was directly insulting to me.

I may be being overliteral, it's a thing that I do, but just to check when you say directly insulting to you, you're not saying that Ned is directing his remarks at you, right?

I read it more in the spirit of

D: "The Tea Party annoys the fuck out of me"
N: "Why do you hate freedom, you heartless tyrant?"

IE snarky assumption of a ridiculous tone from a position that it's understood neither of them inhabits.

DJ Spooky is a great example of this.

Completely.

I often forget DJ Spooky exists, too

actually... Lupe Fiasco

DJ Spooky is a great example of this.

― 誤訳侮辱,

better schtick too, there's going to be a museum circuit for the forseeable future but social networking technology conferences are not a venue you can count on as a career-canny musician thinking of the long haul

We had a great cast (isangallthegoodsongs).

better schtick too, there's going to be a museum circuit for the forseeable future but social networking technology conferences are not a venue you can count on as a career-canny musician thinking of the long haul

you are wildly underestimating the collective credulity of the tech world

better schtick too, there's going to be a museum circuit for the forseeable future but social networking technology conferences are not a venue you can count on as a career-canny musician thinking of the long haul

idk, in the realm of pop culture I think social media/performance theory today has roughly the same weight as mixed media/postmodern theory in the 90s; I can v. easily see Palmer ditching the music and nabbing a gig that’s more highbrow/academic. let’s not forget that Spooky’s greatest credential is his ecstatic vision of postmodernism as a playground f/ limitless self-realization inextricably linked w/ oblivious and compulsive production that’s packaged and sold as an intoxicating stew of reified, idealized narcissism that only secondarily employs music and text and film. in the rarified circles to which AP and Spooky aspire, only success is success, and success is the only necessary credential f/ any endeavor (meaning Palmer’s future may actually depend on her continuation down her current path, and I’m sure she’ll be fine).

p sure his greatest credential was always 'let's get this dj guy in here to tell us about how this electronic whatever that has overrun us is actually good somehow'

http://instagram.com/p/W07AuHif8n/

oh my godddd

yeah, he was selling a future which not coincidentally had him at its (hipster) nucleus. AP I think is working a similar schtick from a slightly different platform.

xxp

it was semi-intended, give me a little credit

― Darth Icky (DJP), Thursday, 21 March 2013 15:10 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I read it as if you were saying it was yourself that got fantastic reviews...

Iknow, that was ages ago...

p sure what makes amanda palmer so annoying is that she's cheerleading for a system of remuneration in which the people who actually make things have to depend on the voluntary generosity of their paymasters, as if we haven't had several centuries to see how that works out. and the fact that it's working out well for her at the moment appears to be the only criterion she gives a shit about

homeless man: "i am broke and starving and lost and my life in ruins."

ap: "did you remember to ask for money?"

i mean she's essentially right-wing, i guess i'm not blowing any minds here with that statement but it's worth remembering occasionally that she has more in common with ed meese than kathleen hanna

Sarah Palin might be a better comparison, she has a similar cult of personality and "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality.

xp - the thing is, that's a lot of how the non-profit economy works in America. Most of America's cultural institutions, both large and small, have to depend on the voluntary generosity of their "paymasters". She just seems to be applying that model to the individual artist, which is what kickstarter does to an extent. I feel like the brouhaha with the kickstarter campaign and the "booze and hugs" musicians wouldn't have been an issue if the project was funded privately, or from her own resources, or by a label. But because it was presented in this public contribute-to-a-charity way, the fact that she wasn't completely charitable in the way she conducted the work garnered the same reaction that a lot of non-profits or government agencies get when there is perceived inequity.

p sure what makes amanda palmer so annoying is that she's cheerleading for a system of remuneration in which the people who actually make things have to depend on the voluntary generosity of their paymasters, as if we haven't had several centuries to see how that works out. and the fact that it's working out well for her at the moment appears to be the only criterion she gives a shit about

but the thing is, and this is extra-annoying but that's life: if you are a recording artist, life in the digital age means that you depend on the voluntary generosity of your paymasters if you want to be paid for your recorded music. What she has learned that if you 1) acknowledge this and then 2) say that it's awesome and is the future!!, people will reward you for your stance by giving you money for the records they otherwise would still grab but wouldn't pay you for.

it's a very calculated stance, in my opinion, and a tempting one: it works like a charm, on the evidence. But that system she's cheerleading, that's just how it is, if you can game it to pay you by saying it's nice, why not

she has a similar cult of personality and "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality.

Is that like Sarah Palin or just like a whole bunch of rock stars and rappers with healthy egos? "I built that" is the cornerstone of many artists' self-belief. I don't think that makes her right-wing but boostering a (new! exciting! revolutionary!) system that she must know (and indeed has said before) only works for a lucky few is disingenuous.