Is Rakim possibly the best rapper

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Rakim gives good 'grain' of the voice, so does Chuck D, Gil Scott Heron, Snoop, Eminem

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 23:30 (twenty-two years ago)

i like kool g rap but he has been consigned to the rap dustbin of history sadly.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 11 December 2003 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

who HASNT been consigned to the rap dustbin of history, who was around before 1990, save perhaps LL?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 11 December 2003 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i also find the idea that this thread is "contentious" a bit baffling since i thought it was generally regarded that rakim was considered the "greatest" (along with nas, big, and maybe pac, though surely that's more of a cultural context thing.)

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 11 December 2003 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Nas is the most mystifying choice

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 11 December 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you could make a strong case for peak-period Ice Cube (from NWA through Death Certificate).

I wouldn't say so, he's a great storyteller but his flow isn't particularly impressive, it always sounds kinda same.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 December 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know what you mean by flow (I've always liked his delivery), but I think a young Ice Cube is just jaw dropping, sooo strong, so much charisma, angry, witty, poignant, sad - the Johnny Rotten of gangsta rap.....his performcances on Straight Outta Compton and Americakka's Most Wanted, and Kill at Will are perfect....Also, alot of rappers always sound the same....Rakim uses the same type of flow alot (esp. nowadays), so did Kool G Rap.....I don't think always using a certain type flow is bad....Also, compare his verse of Straight Outta Compton to Dead Homiez or his verse in Burn, Hollywood Burn to It Was a Good Day....I don't think they sound the same at all.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 11 December 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I've always wondered how you define best. Is it lyrical complexity? Flow? Drama? Storytelling? Freestyling ability? Emotional force? Surely it's sheer listenability. I can listen to Ghostface Killah/Method Man/Big Boi/early Ice Cube for hours, even though there are technically better MCs out there. And I never fail to be impressed by people rapping REALLY FAST. I heard Blackalicious's Alphabet Aerobics again the other day and it's astonishing, even though I suspect it's the rapping equivalent of an Yngwie Malmsteen guitar solo.

― Shangri-La (Shangri-La), Thursday, 11 December 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Contenders not yet mentioned...

Big Daddy Kane
GZA
Redman
Big L (well, could've been...)
Scarface

For an entire body of work, Jay-Z is, for me, the most consistent/listenable/enjoyable/what-have-you. There's the typical ILM response someone asked for earlier in the thread.

― Adam Harrison-Friday, Friday, 12 December 2003 01:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Have you all forgotten... Guru? You know, the guy with
the best monotone in rap, spittin' over Premier's
world-class productions. That Guru. First three
Gang Starr albums are nearly untouchable, with
nary a filler track on 'em.

― Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Friday, 12 December 2003 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Guru is decent/mediocre/adequate, and nothing more. If he never hooked up with Premo, I doubt any of us would've heard about him.

Big L would definitely be in my Top 5.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 12 December 2003 08:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah I'm no expert but it seems like "best monotone in rap" has a bit of a built-in disadvantage.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 12 December 2003 09:22 (twenty-two years ago)

"best one-fingered guitarist"

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 12 December 2003 10:59 (twenty-two years ago)

What of O.C.? Anyone remember "Time's Up"????? A certified classic!

― herbalizer12 (herbalizer12), Friday, 12 December 2003 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Big Daddy Kane - RAW

― Chris B. Sure (Chris V), Friday, 12 December 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Lets not forget MC Milk or MC Serch......

― Chris B. Sure (Chris V), Friday, 12 December 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

More Slick Rick love please!

I'm not sure that "wordplay" is any more or less of a positive quality than flow or rythmic sensibility. Certain MCs who are famed for their "wordplay" tend to grate in their eagerness to please the teacher (Kweli, anyone?), whereas someone with a totally unique voice (Snoop, Dizzee, Redman) can get away with all kinds of shit. Ludacris, when he's good, is probably the best of both worlds.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Kweli's got very good rhythm and style though, and a very distinct voice! WTF?

Premier can make any MC sound good. He makes good MCs (Guru, Ill Bill fr'instance) sound great. He makes great MCs (like um I dunno NAS) sound fanfuckingtastic. I can't wait to hear the track(s) he produced on Cee-Lo's next album.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

And Kool G Rap is definitely way overlooked all the time. He's got one of the only decidedly cool-sounding lisps in hip-hop (that I can remember at the mo', anyway).

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never understood why anyone considers Jay-Z to be the best MC of this or any other time - I mean, I love a load of his stuff but the actual rapping is often the least engaging thing about his music, it often sounds a bit ponderous to me.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick, do Primus also have rhythm and style? ;)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000063BPE.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

>I've never understood why anyone considers Jay-Z to be the >best MC of this or any other time - I mean, I love a load of his >stuff but the actual rapping is often the least engaging thing >about his music, it often sounds a bit ponderous to me.

I think he can talk about the same topics with consistently interesting vocabulary, never mind his presence, flow, and how enjoyable he is to listen to. Can't be beat on punchlines and he's made at least three excellent albums. If you use Kool Moe Dee's report card for him I think he'd rank near the top of most lists. Though it's a personal thing... I just go back to his stuff, get more out of it, and enjoy a lot of it, more than I can say for a lot of artists. I think the persona he's created makes him more interesting and reveals more as you listen to him. Oh yeah, he's also unbeatable on punchlines. Plus you can argue he got better as he went along. He's a special case. One final thing: he can go from believing he's untouchable to throwing in jokes on tracks and having fun. As you can see, there's something that makes him more interesting to me than most others.

― Adam Harrison-Friday, Friday, 12 December 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Kool Moe ranked himself
over L.L. Cool J, so
it's clearly bullshit.

having said that now,
Adam you've just made a real
good case for Jay-Z!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 12 December 2003 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

it occurs to me
that no one has said "L.L."
yet, so I will here.

that guy had a streak
that no one has touched on earth:
albums 1-4

sure his later stuff
is more hit and miss, but still
he deserves respect

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 12 December 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

Rakim was the best of his tim yes and is still one of the greatest ever but Biggie and Pac in my opinion were the 2 best , but you also got Big L Harlems finest , the best out there today is betweene Em and 50

― Buddy Robertson, Monday, 5 January 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

the people saying slick rick over rakim are the people who are right. the one saying kool g rap is the most shamefully overlooked, thats right too. pharoahe monch is the greatest ever in terms of virtuoso like abilities, he can do the things no one else can like a hendrix type person.

― luk2, Tuesday, 6 January 2004 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

E-40

― peckham rye, Tuesday, 6 January 2004 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

your fuckin kidding me right fuck rahkim when it comes to to sheer lyrics and medafors but ma nigga styles got the hood and the flow on lock and that nigga casidy is a up and coming problem for all u sucka ass old school fans that shit is dead move on!!!!

― oc12, Friday, 12 March 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

and that nigga casidy is a up and coming problem for all u sucka ass old school fans

I really like imagining that there's a bunch of old-school fans huddled together in a dark basement somewhere discussing threats to the hegemony - "OK, what are we gonna do about Cassidy, if he keeps making good records our plans for Old School World Domination are gonna be in some deep shit - Mikhail! dig up some dirt on this Cassidy fellow while I listen to this Ultramagnetic MC's 12" I copped on eBay"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 12 March 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"Ho...tel...mo...tel...holidae INNNNN"
"sayWHAT?!"

Cassidy is clearly the GOAT.

― djdee2005, Friday, 12 March 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

" If Skills sold truth/ truth be told/ I would probably be/ Lyrically Talib Kweli/ Truthfully I wanna rhyme like common sense/ Be I did five mill/ And Ain't been rapping like common since" I think that Jay-Z should considered one of the best rappers ever. I love Nas, Pac, Em, and the rest but Jay stuck to his style for eight years and made eight albums with 4 classics.
1. Reasonable Doubt
2. Vol 2. Hard Knock Life
3. The Blueprint
4. The Black Album

― Chris Matthews, Saturday, 13 March 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

Tupac #1, Biggie #2, Rakim #3, Krs-1 #4, Kool G Rap #5, Nas #6, Mos Def #7, Royce the 5'9 #8, Eminem #9, O.C. #10. This is the most accurate list, well b/c its mine, but b/c it includes lyrical prowess, influence, and the ability to strive through changes in the game and survive critics who keep hating. I know my shit, and I might not be totally right in this, but all things said, I am pretty damn close...

― Jeff Anderson, Sunday, 28 March 2004 06:44 (twenty-two years ago)

lyrical prowess, influence, and the ability to strive through changes in the game and survive critics who keep hating.

2pac at number one?!

― djdee2005, Sunday, 28 March 2004 08:00 (twenty-two years ago)

KRS-1 #4 ?????

― The Rebukes of Hazard (mjt), Sunday, 28 March 2004 08:24 (twenty-two years ago)

KRS-1 #4 ?????

How is this unbelievable, by the standards he listed?

― djdee2005, Sunday, 28 March 2004 09:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Jeff Anderson's list. That is a very good list. It's probably pretty close to the truth. Oh well.

― Broheems (diamond), Sunday, 28 March 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm, Tupac is definitely underrated, but to rate him the best rapper of all time is kinda bold.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 28 March 2004 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I always found it difficult for me personally to say who is the greatest rapper of all time. Every rapper had different styles. They are many underrated rappers like BIG L, Kool G Rap, KRS-ONE, Talib Kweli, Common, Royce da 5'9", and many members of Wu-Tang. Jeff Anderson's was good, but why Royce and Mos ahead of Eminem. If you put Mos in there you have to add Talib. Big L defintely belongs in the top 10 in every list I believe like he said "how come you can listen to my first album you can tell where a lot of niggas got there style from" I think he was referring to Jay-Z, correct me if I'm wrong. 2pac was a great rapper, but I don't remember him as a rapper, but more as a person. What Pac stood for and what he believed in he was an activist and realized rap was away to address the public. Now onto Rakim, he was a different sound to use the metaphors in such complex ways was unheard of. A lot of rappers took Rakims style of rhyming like Nas and AZ (another unknown). Rakim is one of the greatest because I see it as this if you give credit to Nas it first has to go through Rakim, but Rakim taught Nas a lot of about spitting. I think the best has to broken into categories like the best story teller I believe is Biggie because the way he did it. So if you want to say who's the best you have to say it in there category.

― Sdot, Monday, 29 March 2004 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

haha "influence"--greatest-rapper-of-all-time lists are so rockist

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 29 March 2004 05:55 (twenty-two years ago)

If you put Mos in there you have to add Talib.

er, no you don't

― oops (Oops), Monday, 29 March 2004 07:48 (twenty-two years ago)

#1 Egyptial Lover
#2 Apache Indian
#3 Black Rob

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 29 March 2004 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

krs isn't #1! oh wait, i'm sorry i lied.

he's #'s 1 2 3 4 and 5.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

(not really)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe if we had one of those things like Leela from Futurama where we could determine an MC's mad rhyme-busting success rate ("I believe that qualifies as ill")

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 29 March 2004 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread (esp. Jeff Anderson's list, stodgy almost to the point of self-parody) proves most everything I said on the thread below:

Technique in Rap and Rock

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

'stodgy to the point of self parody'??? what the fuck does that mean?
my list goes:
1.2 Pac
2.Mannie Fresh
3.Bun B
4.Jadakiss
5.Eminem
6.Lil Wayne
7.Snoop
8.E40
9.Lil Keke
10.Nas

― jack who, take what, Monday, 29 March 2004 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"'stodgy to the point of self parody'??? what the fuck does that mean?"

Start with mikestands up rectums. And then work from there.

(You also might wanna check that link.)

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hmm, Tupac is definitely underrated"

By who? And COMPARED to who? Jeff Buckley???

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

(You also might wanna check that link.)

Dude Mannie Fresh was #2 on his list...

Also I still think you are approaching hip-hop with a different system of values (and I'm not talking about supremacy of technique here) than myself. And I don't think its fair to say that anyone who disagrees with you that L'Trimm is one of the best hip-hop acts of the 80s is a technique-obsessed rockist.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 100 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Any time Jay-Z is credited as a co-producer on his songs, it's because he brought the sample to the guy who made the beat, that seems to be a semi-commom practice in rap.

― some dude, Thursday, 1 August 2024 20:58 (one year ago)

gee i wonder if there's any other reason someone wouldn't want to take Eric B to court

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, August 1, 2024 2:03 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

the supreme court’s recent decision on presidential immunity

― the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Friday, 2 August 2024 11:43 (one year ago)

haha

― bae (sic), Friday, 2 August 2024 12:10 (one year ago)

lol voodoo

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 2 August 2024 12:22 (one year ago)

one year passes...

Rakim has a free show in Staten Island this Saturday at Stapleton Waterfront Park - he'll be joined by special guests like Joe Ski Love ("Pee Wee’s Dance"!)

https://cityparksfoundation.org/events/rakim-positive-k-sweet-tee-joe-ski-love-nice-smooth-dj-chubby-chub-hosted-by-video-music-box-ralph-mcdaniels/

― birdistheword, Tuesday, 5 August 2025 17:20 (ten months ago)

I totally want to go to this, but it looks like a pain in the ass to get to if you're coming in from the Bronx, Brooklyn or Queens.

― birdistheword, Tuesday, 5 August 2025 17:28 (ten months ago)

damn I would go just to hear 'pee wee's dance' alone

― ok (D-40), Tuesday, 5 August 2025 20:32 (ten months ago)

Yeah, very tempting, but it would be a long subway ride, then a ferry ride, then a bus ride each way, and there's the free Raekwon show in Brooklyn at the same time.

― birdistheword, Tuesday, 5 August 2025 20:42 (ten months ago)

Interesting interview with the producer of “don’t sweat the technique” who never really got credit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaF3TUXPIB0

My fav part is the extended celebration of Larry smith

The interviewers are kind of annoying however

― ok (D-40), Tuesday, 12 August 2025 18:08 (nine months ago)

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Is Rakim possibly the best rapper - ever?