― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:38 (twenty-one years ago) link
?!?!??!?!? can we have a definition of avant-garde plz?
this is horrible. what an embarrassment for a paper that i thought had been all embarrassed out for years now. insult to injury -> this'll fuel chuck k's underdog complex even more!
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:57 (twenty-one years ago) link
(my guess is k's schtick reminds him of his own, but he's languishing in the ussr writing for an awful paper while chuck gets big. i'm embarassed for him)
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
It's like barely disguised aching homoeroticism or something.
― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
the press rarely writes about music (or any other subject); instead, it writes about what other writers are saying about music. and it always claims, of course, that they are wrong. it's as if the paper is staffed by a roomful of people who don't go to movies, don't listen to records, don't go outdoors, and probably don't socialize with other humans. they just read about all that stuff in other newspapers and magazines.
the thing that's amazing to me is that in spite of all that, they've managed to publish a number of really good writers over the years, including another guy named ames (jonathan) who i hope is no relation to this one.
― fact checking cuz, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
I feel another sarcastic tee-hee attack coming on.
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:59 (twenty-one years ago) link
http://exile.ru/167/167122301.html
― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 21:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 21:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
Chuck Klosterman doesn't sound like a lot of fun either. I'm really turning into a terrible reactionary I suppose but this kinda pop-culture riff essay style just.. doesn't make me feel like I've gained anything at all from having read it.
Oh, speaking of reviews - the Metafilter entry that linked to the Klosterman piece also linked to an extremely harsh yet hilarious review of a Chuck Palahniuk book in Salon - now THAT is worth reading. (the review I mean, obv.)
― daria g (daria g), Thursday, 28 August 2003 00:41 (twenty-one years ago) link
Probably also I do this sort of thing myself, and it seem there's a pretty strong element of defensiveness in his stance; criticism is instantaneously diverted because he already KNOWS it's "low culture."
― daria g (daria g), Thursday, 28 August 2003 00:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Thursday, 28 August 2003 00:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 28 August 2003 02:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
That said, Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs isn't very good. Nor has been Klosterman's columns in SPIN.
But he's still a good writer. I was re-reading those comments by Ira Robbins...damn, that was scathing. And rather pious, I might add. Kind of depressing, really.
― don weiner, Thursday, 28 August 2003 02:38 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 28 August 2003 08:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 28 August 2003 08:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 28 August 2003 10:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 28 August 2003 11:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 28 August 2003 11:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
― maura (maura), Thursday, 28 August 2003 16:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 16:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
I liked Fargo Rock City, though really wasn't that impressed by the writing all that much.
But you have a point maura: the explosion of the WWW (and more pointedly, blog culture/bulletin boards like this one) has made the writing voice of guys like Klosterman seem very tedious and commonplace. Or at the very least, hardly clever or unique. I'd even argue it makes Lester Bang's talent much less apparent. In fact, the new Bangs book, like the Marcus comp before it, seems completely unenlightening.
― don weiner, Thursday, 28 August 2003 17:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
(I would also argue that ILX irritates me in the exact same way that Klosterman does when it's mired in its semi-perpetual argument for the sake of argument nadirs.)
― maura (maura), Thursday, 28 August 2003 17:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Thursday, 28 August 2003 17:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
You elitist, Maura! ;-) The Coulter comparison is harsh but you know, the more Klosterman continues the more it starts to make a certain sense...
(My view on Klosterman, ie rather overrated (Robert Plant inadvertantly but perfectly cutting him down directly is still a thing of joy), remains the same; my view on Ames is that he's useless.)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 28 August 2003 17:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 17:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― don weiner, Thursday, 28 August 2003 18:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 28 August 2003 22:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 22:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 28 August 2003 22:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
He does say some less-than-informed things to Liz Phair and Robert Plant in his interviews with them, but by being blunt and risking offense with them he gets some of the better quotes I've heard from those artists. His willingness to hear out opposite arguments in those cases is one major reason the comparison to Ann Coulter bothers me.
His reviews in SPIN seem lacking to me, he can be hit-or-miss and it's possible that just like with his hero Axl Rose fame will not benefit Klosterman's work, but his openness, humor and insights make him one of the more interesting and exciting writers out there. But as Nabisco noted earlier, I share similarities in taste and style.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 28 August 2003 22:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 28 August 2003 22:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
He does make a ton of good points about CK being useless, though he himself is as well. Screw 'em both.
― ham on rye (ham on rye), Sunday, 31 August 2003 02:24 (twenty-one years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Sunday, 31 August 2003 03:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Sunday, 31 August 2003 03:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Clarke B., Sunday, 31 August 2003 20:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
What exactly was "weird" or "assholish" or "speaking for womankind" about his reaction?? (Or "stupid," as that Ames retard said?) It was actually one of the smartest excerpts Ames quoted, seems to me.
― chuck, Sunday, 31 August 2003 20:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 1 September 2003 00:59 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Clarke B., Monday, 1 September 2003 04:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 1 September 2003 04:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 1 September 2003 04:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 07:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
Lester Bangs? Maybe not. But I'll take him.
― Chandler, Wednesday, 10 March 2004 21:36 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Thursday, 11 March 2004 02:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 11 March 2004 03:01 (twenty years ago) link
Only ten are making any money from it tho.
Has anyone written about alt-weeklies being forced to discontinue sex work ads and the effect on being able to make money as a music critic/journalist?
― papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 11 February 2022 01:38 (two years ago) link
Rightly or wrongly, I decided early on that Klosterman's interests weren't mine, and then there seemed to be a certain amount of celebrity attached to him, so I didn't read any of his books. The Nineties is the first one I've read.
Thought it was good--raced through it. At lot of that, I'm sure, has to do with my own positive feelings about the decade. Definitely the last time I was completely plugged into new music, from the start of the decade to the finish. Films and politics too. So I was interested in most everything he covered. (The only chapter I was completely uninterested in was the one on clear sodas--Zima, etc.--and the Biosphere...but there was other stuff in that chapter that did interest me.) Liked the two political chapters ('92 election + Clinton in general), and his memory of all that more or less aligns with my own. (Although he didn't mention some of the early forgotten stories I associate with Clinton: Zoe Baird, Jocelyn Elders, Cristophe.) He's good on movies and sports--liked that he highlighted Michael Jordan's season playing baseball. I wasn't really looking for deep analysis...there's analysis, but it didn't feel like work. If I wrote a book on the '90s myself, it'd probably be a lot like this one. I'd just say "I" a lot more.
― clemenza, Sunday, 6 March 2022 16:19 (two years ago) link
Somebody like Jonathan Lethem once said something like you can enjoy reading Klosterman even if you have zero overlap of taste, with the added bonus of not spending one cent on new music, although I haven't tested this theory in a while.
― Gary Gets His Tonsure Out (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 6 March 2022 16:49 (two years ago) link
I'd say music accounts for a quarter of the book, maybe less. I don't think I found anything egregiously at odds with my own memories of the decade...he says there was "an overwhelming consensus" that "Achy Breaky Heart" was terrible; I think that's overstated (really overstated in view of the fact that he doesn't mention critics, although that's the implied consensus). Some critics liked it, and at least one loved it.
― clemenza, Sunday, 6 March 2022 16:59 (two years ago) link
Overheard at bookstore a few minutes ago: "Like, that guy Klosterman wrote a book on the '90s, and he really got it." Clearly the guy yelling this moistly into his girlfriend's ear hadn't watched the bookstore scene in Annie Hall.
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 2 June 2024 17:36 (three months ago) link
now they're in the art/photography section and he's still yelling his opinions at her and I'm about to call thec cops
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 2 June 2024 17:40 (three months ago) link
Pretend to be on the phone, walk by and loudly talk about how much you enjoyed that one particular sequence in the _Barbie_ movie as you pass.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 2 June 2024 17:43 (three months ago) link
"I'm Just Terrified"
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 2 June 2024 17:47 (three months ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/QZ1DEyI.png
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 2 June 2024 19:12 (three months ago) link