Don't go for second best, baby. Put your ILM ARTIST POLL #31: MADONNA to the test.

now I'm wondering was it one long imperious phase, or several with breaks

lol

i think i noted this in the nods thread but re: sexism in the music press it is hilarious/interesting to read the earliest writings on madonna - some caught on quick but more frequently you either have outright dismissals of her as a bimbo or if they do credit the music they credit it almost entirely to jellybean, the idea that madonna might have any agency or input doesn't occur to them. which would be pretty repugnant under any circumstances but seems especially ridiculous w/ someone like madonna who is clearly in charge and intelligent (for a musician especially). the extent to which rockism and sexism were frequently (but not always tbf) joined becomes apparent w/ her also - respect was always there to be given (begrudgingly or in passing maybe) to a clear talent like michael jackson or systems like motown or stax or producers like spector or songwriters like bacharach or 'craftsmen' like elton john or abba (though note when respect was given to abba it was to benny/bjorn, not frida/agnetha - respecting benny/bjorn recognizes the accomplishment but respecting frida/agnetha requires one to actually make the leap and understand and enjoy the accomplishment); grasping madonna didn't allow refuge in any of these gestures. eventually they invented new gestures to deal w/ her - hello rockcrit's idea of postmodernism - but that was a few haircuts down the line, in 1983, 1984 the idiots had no template to turn to and history would record their foolishness unfiltered for what it was.

also i've been thinking for the past few minutes of 'bad girl' as a first person of elvis costello's 'party girl'; it doesnt' line up completely (or arguably even enough for me to make this post) but i like that when you do this you cut away all the 'nice guy syndrome' nastiness that's at the core of the song (and like 90% of elvis costello's good songs in general) and you're left w/ the soul crushing loneliness that can be at the heart of hedonism (and even an explanation of sorts of the root cause)(in a way it's like jennifer lawrence's diner story in silver linings playbook!)(hi soto), it's way more nuanced and humane and mature and sad than the usual male pop take. also occurred to me that since much of the chorus happens in third person you could change 'i' to 'you' in 'not happy when i act this way' and w/ a male performer the song becomes a standard rejected lover/stalker creep ballad like 'every breath you take' or 'alison' only even now the result is more human, acknowledging (sympathetically!) the self loathing at the heart of that feeling that songs like that usually dodge w/ shallow cleverness ('every breath you take') or nice guy martyrdom ('alison').

I used to find Niki Haris really attractive. My contribution to the gawkathon.

oh you contributed plenty in the voting thread with that garish photograph
shame on you :)

I frequently tell people it was dropped from Sex at the very last minute.

woah she doesn't live that far from here now. apparently her and donna de lory are still tight. reading about harris leaving after the drowned world tour (or maybe during the re-invention tour?) and de lory leaving after the confessions tour reminded me of later hitchcock after so many of his longtime personnel started dropping out. kinda sad to see that collaboration end, that friendship was such a nice aspect of truth or dare. also yes donna de lory's father is al de lory.

I'd forgotten she was on (or was sampled for) Natural Selection's "Do Anything" until I read up on her a bit. Actually, I'd forgotten the song altogether. It's not bad.

okay wtf is wrong with everyone re: "la isla bonita" at #27.

Also, no one voted for the video.

Angel and La Isla Bonita really are too low. happy about Till Death Do Us Apart cracking the top 30, even without my help.

fine i give up everyone loves la isla bonita it's a world run mad.

guys i wish i could just always watch the express yourself video it is so boss.

i was sort of surprised at how high "oh father" placed but then i listened to it and started to cry and couldn't finish, so i'll allow it.

"take a bow" is really too low imo

regarding the accusations of objectification upthread, i've always felt like it's kind of impossible to objectify madonna? she returns the gaze. i remember this manifesting when i was growing up in the backlash against her in comments about how "she's not even that pretty." which always seemed like a hilarious miscalibration of the whole madonna thing also she's like incandescently beautiful but that's not the point. her beauty is not hollowed out or merely to-be-looked-at, which is i guess what kids meant when they accused her of being ugly. i think they meant she's relentlessly a person.

it'd be like objectifying mrs thatcher

maybe not exactly like that

sad that i haven't been online enough for this, thread was good reading though!

everything erotica-related is TOO LOW

horseshoe otm

like her most male-gazey video is obviously "open your heart" but i feel that she's almost mocking the gaze in it, casting the viewer as one of the useless drab loser voyeuristic peepers in the video and she's not some hollow receptacle of male pleasure but so above and beyond and greater than all the gazers who are reduced to just a fraction of her sheer luminous vitality. i feel completely stared down by her like she holds all the power and everyone else is nothing compared to her, she runs away in the video but in away she's already escaped the gaze

i can see how madonna studies were a big thing in the early 90s

i tend to take a really hardline second-wave laura mulvey position on the use of women's bodies in film, but madonna escapes the power dynamic so completely that even i have to acknowledge it. it's remarkable.

i have really enjoyed your posts itt, prolego.

thx! :)

she returns the gaze

this is very otm from horseshoe. a great line.

i think there's a good bit of mileage on balls take on bad girl too.

excellent stuff.

everyone otm itt today

yeah booming horseshoe posts. "she's relentlessly a person"!

i almost started to like "la isla bonita" yesterday, but not quite.

used to feel the same way, still can't imagine it ever being my fave but tom's popular post on it completely changed how i hear the song.

soon, soon

want so bad to read the tripadvisor reviews for the hotel in justify my love

in what cracked-out psychotic universe do ppl live in where they thought "Beautiful Stranger" even had a chance of placing on this poll

― "Bellini." (DJP), Friday, March 8, 2013 4:30 PM (3 days ago)

http://i.imgur.com/KPgXrBe.jpg

20. "BEAUTIFUL STRANGER" from the motion picture soundtrack Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me (1999) [17 votes, 435 points, 1 first place vote]

okay seriously what the hell is wrong with you people

good one fever

I'd better check first--is this one for real or another fake post?

It's real.

I've lost some lovefor it but it's one of the best Orbit tracks.

The Madonna facepalm pic was too good to pass up, though.

That stings, but I know there are tons of Madonna fans who, for whatever reason, love that dumb song.

It is the worst Orbit track by miles and miles

Okay--good job, you people.

I mean, someone voted this song #1 above EVERY OTHER SONG in Madonna's catalog

That would be me, yes.

lol at facepalm, very good

can you send me your address so I know where to direct the medical bills from all of the headdesking this is causing me

I do applaud facepalm.gif tho

Martin Scorsese called. He prefers "Thief of Hearts."

Honestly, I don't get your hate for it...and it did very well in Pazz & Jop, if I'm remembering correctly--loving it is hardly an aberration.

it's a super sappy, unnatural-sounding dripfest in its own right but what really cemented my hatred was the fucking video

Sappy? Ballads are sappy--I thought you'd say corny attempt at psychedelia or something.

between 'cherish' and 'dear jessie' and the various rol thru american life stuff i wonder if you could make a comp of madonna doing the late 60s sunshine pop and hippie rock she clearly grew up on or listens to when she does yoga.