Awesome Audiophile Snake Oil

If there is any audible difference, it will rest on the relative quality of the digital-to-analog converters (DAC) in your blu-ray player and amp. If you connect the player to the amp via RCA, the player's internal DAC will do the work, if you connect over HDMI then you can choose to let the amp's DAC do this instead (there will be an option on the player's settings to output a bitstream or similar which should enable this). Best thing is probably to try it each way and see which your ears prefer.

Thanks for the info! Now, if I understood correctly, analog cables would be better only if the player's DAC quality is higher than the amp's?

Seems to me they both have the same DAC. The specs page for the player, Philips BDP7700, says this:

D/A converter: 24 bit, 192 KHz

And the specs page for the amp, Yamaha RX-V673, says this:

Burr-Brown 192 kHz/24-bit DACs for all channels

So, since the player's DAC can't convert the digital signal any better than the amp's DAC, using analog cables between the player and amp would make no difference? Or did I misunderstand your post?

No, that's all technically correct, but, although the numerical stats might be the same, one might still sound different to the other - it's like comparing cars purely by engine size; other factors play a part. The Blue-Ray player might have a DAC made by an inferior company, for instance (although I doubt it).

tuomas the best thing to do is to listen to both configurations and decide which you like better

The Blue-Ray player might have a DAC made by an inferior company, for instance (although I doubt it).

I don't quite get this part: if the DAC processes digital data and has the exact the same numerical rates, how can one be better than the other? Sound-wise, that is.

tuomas do you listen to music or do you listen to numbers?

Well yeah, but if the point of the DACs is simply to convert the numbers to an analog signal, and they have the same stats, where does the difference between them lie? The numbers remain the same, so the difference must be in the output... Do different DACs somehow produce qualitatively different signals?

yes

Construction might be inferior; components might be inferior; there might be interference; one might overheat more than another and impair (or improve!) performance; any number of factors other than numbers derived from pre-assembly testing or whatever can be at play.

I mean, I'm totally not an expert on this at a technical level, AT ALL, and I know nothing about how electronics work, but I know I've looked at a Panasonic TV and a Samsung TV or whatever with the same 'stats' and preferred the picture on one of them.

That's a fair analogy, and it really does come down to whichever you prefer = best.

On a purely practical note, having a single HDMI cable from the player to the amp and letting the amp do all the work to decode and output HD and CD audio is a much tidier option than having 5 chunky RCA cables between the two, so I'd really only go for that if there's a noticeable improvement via RCA as opposed to HDMI.

regardless of what the numbers mean, it really depends on your ears - some people have 'golden ears' and can hear minute differences between equipment even when double blind tested, others have tin ears. I have shitty ears because I stood next to too many speaker stacks at punk shows growing up, but...

and as for what those numbers mean, they just refer to what level of digital signal they'll accept - to take sick mouthy's car analogy, it's like saying these two cars both are able to take 93 octane gas. what the cars do with the gas is another story.

The fact that both DACs are 24/192k devices doesn't say anything about their analog-side performance. However, I notice that Philips advertise their 9000-series BD players as having "Burr-Brown DACs", which suggests the 7000-series have something (considered) inferior. "Burr-Brown" used to be a name to drop in audio circles (my old Copland CD player had Burr-Brown HDCD devices, I think), though they're owned by Texas Instruments now and I have no idea whether they're considered class leaders or whatever.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1791a.pdf if you want to get geeky.

HDMI does seem like the easier option but it should be pretty easy to do an A/B comparison, switching between HDMI input and a stereo analog input, playing back the same CD. Of course, the levels may differ.

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2013/10/this-hypnotic-turntables-glowing-platter-floats-on-magnets/

i'm surprised it took them this long (or have there been other maglev turntables?)

Aren't magnets a really bad idea near cartridges? I guess that's been the barrier to other maglev designs.

Quite a few vacuum-based turntables over the years, like this one - but, come to think of it, that's just for fixing the record to the platter rather than suspension of the platter:
http://www.sotaturntables.com/newtables/millennia.htm

A turntable of that quality would be using a moving coil cartridge (which with some exceptions are what most high quality carts are) not moving magnet (which are generally what lower quality carts are (with some exceptions like my ortofon 2m blue)

An MC cart still has a magnet in it.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/audiophiles-luring-youngsters-into-boring-conversations-2013110180809

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2013-tas-editors-choice-awards-digital-interconnects/

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Mid-priced! Watching the audiophiles get into computer audio stuff has been hilarious.

Even when used to carry nothing but the clock signal in the dCS Vivaldi, it improves image focus, increases coherence, and produces a smoother and more organic presentation.

capable of resolving the finest detail

Maybe if We record some hard truths about audio cables at sear sound and press to 180g vinyl...

The announcement of Pono (launching via Kickstarter!) definitely belongs in this thread. A 128GB device that will hold 1000/2000 albums? That's 64MB per album, which is roughly equivalent to 128kbps AAC files if we assume an album = an hour of music. Doesn't seem particular "high-resolution" to me...but maybe the "PonoMusic recommended earbud and headphone products" make all the difference.

Yeah I've never been able to make sense of what Neil is doing... just in general...but also w Pono...I mean hi-rez digital files (24/192) are pretty common now & there are already options for iPod type devices made by audiophile companies, so I've never understood Pono...unless he's claiming they've invented some new codec that can make hi-rez quality in a much smaller data footprint??

it's probably some terrible filters

I like all the "Unknown artist"s on the screen. They couldn't be bothered to tag the files properly for the photo!

Neil Young has been saying that PONO will be 24 bit 192kHz PCM. If that is the case a 30 minute 24/192 FLAC music album is over 1 GB, a 1 hour 24/192 FLAC music album is over 2 GB. So that would be 60 to 120 albums depending on length.

I'm guessing the target audience here - gadget-freak, divorced or empty-nest dads - probably will not really need more than 60 to 120 albums worth of space anyway.

Also, the shape of this thing. It looks designed to be as uncomfortable as possible in a pocket.

that is now saying

"PRESS RELEASE UPDATED AT 2:57AM Monday March 10th 2014."

and

"The PonoPlayer has 128GB of memory and can store from about 100 to 500 high-resolution digital-music albums..."

which is more like it.

I mean hi-rez digital files (24/192) are pretty common now & there are already options for iPod type devices made by audiophile companies, so I've never understood Pono...

I have a regular 50 Euro Sansa MP3 player that can also play FLACs, and with a 20 Euro added memory card it has the total space of 40GB, which is more than I'll ever need. So yeah, paying over 300 dollars more for the extra memory seems pretty stupid.

I'm sure this has audiophile grade DAC and headphone stage though... file format and nitrate isn't the whole story

http://cached.imagescaler.hbpl.co.uk/resize/scaleWidth/620/?sUrl=http://offlinehbpl.hbpl.co.uk/news/OKM/94FA9503-D259-4ED9-9EFB84892E4A2FC1.jpg

ok .. placing this here as opposed to the pono thread.

i have encoded most of my archive into digital form (256 mp3).
i run music from my laptop headphone output socket into my amp aux input.
up until tonight the vaio has been set to a 'clearaudio for music' setting that seemed to boost bottom and top.
question : would a dragonfly dac make that much of a difference ?
tonight i have switched the clearaudio setting off, and now have a 'clean' set up.
or, would the dragonfly dac do little to improve over the 'clearaudio for music' preset as that seems to add a lot of colour to the groove.

[ note : i am not a high end audiophile. i have a basic all in one mid level teac amp/cd system, with entry level cambridge audio floorstanders. ]

i'm pretty skeptical of those kind of preset things....it would definitely change things because the dragonfly would be decoding the digital, not your PC

yeah ..thats what i thought, but the clearaudio setting sounds rather bloody good ..

the question is : flat output + dragonfly vs clearaudio music setting

if a dragonfly was £50 i would run the risk, but £120+ i want to figure out my options.

Can you get hold of the dragonfly from a supplier that does a no quibble refund/returns policy? It's going to be a significantly better than the DAC built into your laptop, which are notoriously cheap and at the mercy of interference from the rest of the computer. But you won't know if you prefer the sound of it until you try. I do know that my little headphone amp/dac which I use to run my Alessandro MS1s sounds heaps better than just plugging them into the laptop.

mark e - i mean it's kinda hard to answer this stuff not being able to hear what you're hearing...

when i ask questions like this it usually means i want to buy something and feel kinda like i shouldn't spend the cash so i want someone else to tell me to buy it, so i'm gonna do it: buy the dragonfly, it will sound way better than this clearaudio setting stuff i've never heard :)

yeah, i have now switched off the clearaudio setting, and used the amp to add top/bottom and already i prefer this to the stressed out processed grooves.
i just know i will succumb and get the dragonfly ..
i mean i listen to everything via the laptop/amp set up, and so, think its worthy of the ££££
once i get the car MOT'd and such, this is top of my wishlist.
ta for the nudges folks ..

if you even care enough to ask these questions, why on earth would you rip CDs to 256 mp3 and not to FLAC? it's not like it costs any more.

$/bit

I care about these things but storage still being a precious commodity in this day and ago, I stick to mp3 rips

if you even care enough to ask these questions, why on earth would you rip CDs to 256 mp3 and not to FLAC? it's not like it costs any more.

1. i have to use zune to port music from laptop to phone .. no FLAC support.

2. i started ripping my cd archive to mp3 a few years ago prior to upgrading my kit, and i dont want to have to redo the whole thing again, so sticking with what i have ..

3. "[ note : i am not a high end audiophile... ]" i.e. 256 = perfectly fine for my needs/phone etc.

however, if i can improve the groove with a bolt on, then i may just be tempted.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Furutech-Duplex-Outlet-Cover-Plate-Brass-Carbon-Fiber-103-D-/181346731031?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2a391b8417
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ELP-Laser-Turntable-High-End-Model-Record-Player-Remote-Line-Phono-Out-78-LP-45-/181171384746?pt=US_Record_Players_Home_Turntables&hash=item2a2ea7f1aa
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AUDIO-DESK-Deske-VINYL-CD-CLEANER-RECORD-Vacuum-CLEANING-MACHINE-New-/181387719602?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a3b8cf3b2
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Furutech-Nano-Liquid-Contact-Treatment-Cables-Connectors-XLR-RCA-/181406703983?pt=US_Vinyl_Record_Cleaning&hash=item2a3caea16f
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http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Audiotop-Digital-Disc-Cleaner-for-CD-SACD-and-DVD-Blu-Ray-/171326280967?pt=US_Vinyl_Record_Cleaning&hash=item27e3d79507
Come the fuck on

really, you don't think a carbon-fiber electrical outlet cover plate will improve sound quality?

It makes the electricity faster!

Formula: Highly purified (99,999%) non specified substance.

Seller info: cheapgamestuff...

a laser record player is kind of a fun project that should not seriously be offered for sale

The outlet cover plate is upside down in the photo; don't they know that will make everything out of phase?